We’ve had enough of digital monopolies and surveillance capitalism. We want an alternative world that works for everyone, just like the original intention of the web and net.

We seek a world of open platforms and protocols with real choices of applications and services for people. We care about privacy, transparency and autonomy. Our tools and organisations should fundamentally be accountable and resilient.


Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet" 2014-02-03 09:53:54 (6 years 7 mons 14 days 10:06:00 ago)

Am 02.02.2014 19:20, schrieb Paul Frazee:
There's a fair share of us working on similar ideas. Based on the last 2 years I've spent, I'd say they'll need to scale their ambition back, or find a good way to release usable chunks. You can't underestimate the resources it takes to create a platform,

+1, though i believe you wanted to say that you can't _over_estimate the resources it takes.  Underestimating is pretty simple.

Otherwise I had similar experiences.  Avatar's goals look pretty similar to our ideas for Askemos (though ethereum is even closer).  Except that we immediately scaled back to leave browser integration for later.

A decade of experience later and having released a usable, self-hosting system I can account the resources it took.  We had four people working full time for about four years, a couple of bachelor and master papers and a handful of grants from govt. programs.

And still: we underestimated how much resources we would need for publicity and evangelism. (The single worst mistake we made.)

and you can't waste time when you're 1) downstream of a platform that could eat you (the browsers) and 2) mixed in with a fair share of us working on similar ideas.

Good luck to them, but I think they'll get beaten to the punch.

On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Martin Honermeyer <maze@strahlungsfrei.de> wrote:
Some of you might already have heard of it. There is a new project
called Avatar [1] built by two finnish guys. It aims to create a
distributed and secure P2P network which allows for messaging and data
storage, among others. In order to be able to run on as many platforms
and to be easy to use, Avatar is implemented via JavaScript in the web
browser. Looking the technology preview description [1], this seems the
be one the most ambitious and thought-out projects I have seen so far.

For the peer-to-peer connections, they are currently using an
(optional) locally-installed software called "Avatar Bridge" which is
aimed to fill the gap until WebRTC reaches maturity and wide browser

There are voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as
doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example,
doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a
proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the future,
delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself.

Really interested to see how this works out. Any opinions?

[1] http://avatar.ai
[2] http://sneakpeek.avatar.ai/technology.html
[3] http://www.matasano.com/articles/javascript-cryptography/