We’ve had enough of digital monopolies and surveillance capitalism. We want an alternative world that works for everyone, just like the original intention of the web and net.
We seek a world of open platforms and protocols with real choices of applications and services for people. We care about privacy, transparency and autonomy. Our tools and organisations should fundamentally be accountable and resilient.
<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Yes! I have read that paper and I agree with Adam. Thank you for reminding me of that post.<br> <br> I built <a href="http://firestr.com/">Fire★</a> on similar principles. <br> What is the smallest amount of fixed points to get the system to work, but my reason for doing it is slightly different than Adam's.<br> <br> Yes, it is HARD to get a distributed systems to work, but only if we try to treat them as a single system! Lots of distributed systems research is based on this notion, "How can I build a multi-node system that appears to be one."<br> <br> If we abandon this notion where it makes sense, then it becomes much easier. Why are DHT hard? Because we want to distribute a hash table across machines and treat it like one! But then again, do we need one hash table? And if we do, should it be distributed?<br> <br> I propose we abandon the notion that a all distributed system should act like one system. Probably the only reason we think so is because corporations really care about this notion. But a free society?<br> <br> There are four modes of communication we do, public/anonymous, private/anonymous, public/known, private/known. Now the question is which modes of communication should act like many systems and which should act like one system. Here is my thinking:<br> <br> O = One System<br> D = distributed<br> <br> <br> anonymous | known<br> --------------------------------------------------------<br> public | O | O<br> --------------------------------------------------------<br> private | D | D<br> <br> <br> The analogy would be the difference between your house and the public square. And talking to many or one person. <br> <br> Corporations want everything to act like one system because they need control. This is obviously stupid. <br> <br> <a href="http://firestr.com/">Fire★</a> falls on the private/known mode of communication, and I am not attempting to make it anything else. ZeroTier One can act as public or private and it makes sense to me why he chose some central points to handle the public case. Because to handle the public case, you need something that kind of looks like one system, and distributed systems that look like one system are HARD and you have to deal with CAP. <br> <br> The developers trying to make decentralized public communication systems have a huge hill to climb and they need resources that corporations are simply not interested in providing. I really feel for them!<br> <br> I heard ZeroTier One got some seed funding. This is great! However, I suspect it would not have been possible if Adam build a completely decentralized system. Since he has some control points, it appears some capitalist thinks there is an upside. I am all for taking money out of capitalists if it means more decentralized systems get investment like ZeroTier. And I hope Adam reads my blog post about the dangers he faces ahead. He will have an uphill battle in keeping it decentralized and in the communities control.<br> <br> And your question about market forces? My answer would be, what market forces? I don't believe the technologies are chosen because the market chooses them. An example for you is one you may deal with many times in your life. Every time you go to a super market, or any store, someone has chosen what is put on the shelf. Countless decisions are made for you before you make your choice. Your typical interaction with the economy is going to distribution systems, not markets.<br> <br> The internet was different for a while. However, you may have noticed the trend of people using phones and tablets and get their software not from markets, but distribution systems like app stores. I fear the ideal that markets do the right thing is a joke because they are impossible to have in a capitalist society. <br> <br> Max<br> <br> P.S.<br> <br> I like to write a lot, sorry for the wall of text.<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> Brian Cloutier wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote cite="mid:CAA+iFE8mVQEsu-D0bB3Z2zJ-cHP4GJnuavAOdrFGcK-paoJ=uQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <div dir="ltr">Thanks for posting! I enjoyed the link to Telekommunism, "venture communism" is a fun phrase.<br> <br> <div>Your post reminds me of another sent to this list, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://adamierymenko.com/decentralization-i-want-to-believe/">I want to believe.</a></div> <div><br> </div> <div>You focus on funding, it's easier to monetize centralized services so more venture capital is poured into creating them. The other post mentions technical difficulties, distributed systems are <i>hard </i>and getting them to work even when you trust each piece to act in good faith is difficult. Writing a distributed system which is also a good product is harder than simply writing a good product; centralization helps you outcompete.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>How might we get around these pretty substantial market forces? </div> <div><br> </div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM mempko <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:email@example.com">firstname.lastname@example.org</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquo te="" class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi All,<br> <br> I thought you guys/gals would like this post I made.<br> <br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mempko.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/the-shadow-of-the-cloud-on-grass-computing/" target="_blank">https://mempko.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/the-shadow-of-the-cloud-on-grass-computing/</a><br> <br> Let me know what you think and any corrections I can make.<br> I personally enjoy both the technical and the social/political issues of<br> decentralized software and I hope some of you do too.<br> <br> Cheers!<br> Max<br> </blockquo></div> </div> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>