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Redecentralize

We’ve had enough of digital monopolies and surveillance capitalism. We want an alternative world that works for everyone, just like the original intention of the web and net.

We seek a world of open platforms and protocols with real choices of applications and services for people. We care about privacy, transparency and autonomy. Our tools and organisations should fundamentally be accountable and resilient.

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Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-12 08:30:41
think you're ultimately right, and you've shifted my thinking just a little. The CAP theorem, while relevant, is probably not the central bugaboo. The central problem is trust. What and who do you trust, and why, and how do you compute this? The solution most of the Internet /...\ certificate that I plan to put somewhere very safe (and keep encrypted) when I'm done signing the topology root dictionary. Trust without some centralized "god" somewhere is extraordinarily hard for the reasons you discuss. How do I trust? How do I compute trust? How do I cooperate with peers /...\ block chain. This also makes me think more and more about hybrid systems where you've got multiple types of systems -- including both centralized and decentralized -- that back each other to create an "antifragile" network. > The Bitcoin network solves the trust problem by essentially trusting itself. If someone successfully
mempko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 18:11:20
heart of my post. We need to figure out a way for society to spend resources on decentralized and p2p technologies over centralized ones. People need to pay for this stuff because there is no other way for it to get better. And, as you described, the "free" model /...\ long term. So paying for stuff online makes you poorer, but if nobody pays for anything online we get pathologies like the surveillance-driven centralized silo Internet. We all get poorer. Seems at least analogous to me. If we all paid for decentralized systems, we’d get richer /...\ year: https://www.zerotier.com/misc/BorderNone2014-AdamIerymenko-DENY_ALL.pdf It goes into a bit of the history of how we got here and why everything’s become so centralized. I think economics is only part of the story. As far as funding goes, three of the projects you list are funded to some level
Pierre Ozoux [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-04 00:38:32
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 15:31:53
long term. So paying for stuff online makes you poorer, but if nobody pays for anything online we get pathologies like the surveillance-driven centralized silo Internet. We all get poorer. Seems at least analogous to me. If we all paid for decentralized systems, we’d get richer /...\ year: https://www.zerotier.com/misc/BorderNone2014-AdamIerymenko-DENY_ALL.pdf It goes into a bit of the history of how we got here and why everything’s become so centralized. I think economics is only part of the story. As far as funding goes, three of the projects you list are funded to some level /...\ funded too. Some capital is going into this stuff, but it’s a very tiny trickle compared to what gets invested in centralized systems. That’s not because of any ideological agenda. It’s because centralized systems usually get more users (due to better user experience mostly
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 15:21:49
year: https://www.zerotier.com/misc/BorderNone2014-AdamIerymenko-DENY_ALL.pdf It goes into a bit of the history of how we got here and why everything’s become so centralized. I think economics is only part of the story. As far as funding goes, three of the projects you list are funded to some level /...\ funded too. Some capital is going into this stuff, but it’s a very tiny trickle compared to what gets invested in centralized systems. That’s not because of any ideological agenda. It’s because centralized systems usually get more users (due to better user experience mostly /...\ different more networked model from the old grey box PC. There are aspects of the cloud that aren’t going away though. At central data centers it’s possible to achieve economies of scale that can make things like storage and compute cheaper in bulk there than they
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-12 20:23:47
Trust without some centralized "god" somewhere is extraordinarily hard for the reasons you discuss. How do I trust? How do I compute trust? How do I cooperate with peers to compute trust while being sure these peers are not defecting. I think the problem is trying to compute trust algorithmically /...\ bootstrap trust in some other way. Everybody trusting some root authority is the easiest way to do that but it's also the most centralized. It also doesn't actually solve the problem unless the root authority is also the only trusted party, because now you have /...\ attack begins. > This also makes me think more and more about hybrid systems where you've got multiple types of systems -- including both centralized and decentralized -- that back each other to create an "antifragile" network. That definitely seems like the way to go. Homogenous systems are inherently fragile because
ben [GG] Re: Public Money until tomorrow evening: 2016-04-10 14:54:00
anyone knows anyone at DG Connect, do not hesitate to send him my answers bellow (a kind of decentralized answer to a centralized survey :-) cheers, Benjamin ANDRE - Cozy Cloud CEO - +33 686 253 666   HTTPS://EC.EUROPA.EU/EUSURVEY/RUNNER/NEXTGEN-INTERNET 1.1    Your occupation and expertise /...\ assessment of the current status of the Internet and its impact from a European perspective ? What are the major trends ? The internet is increasingly centralized onto few nodes of control. This centralization of data and therefore of services, is at the core of the power of Californian oligopolies. They /...\ Could you indicate where we should focus our activity research in the next 5-10 years to achieve? The evolution of an always more centralized internet is not sustainable, especially for Europe since the centers of the internet are out of its boundaries. Institutions remain focused on building the "next
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-03 10:45:39
think it's important to take a step back and think through the problem. I really want to push through the Little Centralization Paper (Tsitsiklis/Xu) a little more. > > To me the key thing is this: > > Our hypothetical "blind idiot God" must be as minimal /...\ possible. I'm with you. We've been toying with such an idea for a while too. But looking into this "little centralization paper" I'm left puzzled what *function* the centralized thing should provide? My over-all impression so far is, that the paper mostly concerns efficiency /...\ simplicity are much more important (as you mentioned in your blog post too). I view efficiency more like an economic term applicable to central service providers operating services like FB. I can only guess what the to-be-centralized functionality would be: your #1 of your problem definition, the name
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-13 21:04:47
David Geib <trustiosity.zrm@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Trust without some centralized "god" somewhere is extraordinarily hard for the reasons you discuss. How do I trust? How do I compute trust? How do I cooperate with peers to compute trust while being sure these peers /...\ some other way. > > Everybody trusting some root authority is the easiest way to do that but it's also the most centralized. It also doesn't actually solve the problem unless the root authority is also the only trusted party, because now you have /...\ number of relevant things to say about that. > That's the general pattern that I see. The easiest approach is the most centralized approach... at least if you neglect the longer term systemic downsides of it. Maybe over-centralization should be considered a form of technical debt. I agree
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 11:40:41
Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: I'm working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then the server can be downloaded and self-administered for the super /...\ such as the CAP theorem. My goal is for ZeroTier One to be reliable, zero-configuration, and very fast, and doing that without any centralized POP is really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network /...\ goals with this project is to make p2p lateral communication easy on public virtual LANs. The fact that peers use a set of centralized servers to find each other is IMHO secondary... making lateral communication easy enables people to easily develop killer apps that want to talk laterally. Once these
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:46:47
Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: I'm working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then the server can be downloaded and self-administered for the super /...\ such as the CAP theorem. My goal is for ZeroTier One to be reliable, zero-configuration, and very fast, and doing that without any centralized POP is really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network /...\ goals with this project is to make p2p lateral communication easy on public virtual LANs. The fact that peers use a set of centralized servers to find each other is IMHO secondary... making lateral communication easy enables people to easily develop killer apps that want to talk laterally. Once these
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 11:50:49
Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: I'm working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then the server can be downloaded and self-administered for the super /...\ such as the CAP theorem. My goal is for ZeroTier One to be reliable, zero-configuration, and very fast, and doing that without any centralized POP is really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network /...\ goals with this project is to make p2p lateral communication easy on public virtual LANs. The fact that peers use a set of centralized servers to find each other is IMHO secondary... making lateral communication easy enables people to easily develop killer apps that want to talk laterally. Once these
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:53:30
Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: I'm working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then the server can be downloaded and self-administered for the super /...\ such as the CAP theorem. My goal is for ZeroTier One to be reliable, zero-configuration, and very fast, and doing that without any centralized POP is really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network /...\ goals with this project is to make p2p lateral communication easy on public virtual LANs. The fact that peers use a set of centralized servers to find each other is IMHO secondary... making lateral communication easy enables people to easily develop killer apps that want to talk laterally. Once these
Tristan Nitot [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralize Conference, 17-18 Oct, London 2015-08-25 15:33:59
schrieb Francis Irving: >> >> http://redecentralize.org/conference/ >> >> It seems slightly odd having a centralized meetup for a distributed >> group of distributed Internet groups. But it makes sense, and some >> groups are organising team meetups around the same time /...\ hope that there will be some discussions about the question: What do > we really want to do? > > I think that the centralization of the net is a social issue. I think it's a commercial issue. Sharing, at least with everyone, is not complicated using /...\ actually built to publish... in a decentralized way. I agree that as humans, we're social animals. But what made us centralize stuff is mostly greed. There is nothing written in stone saying that we need to centralize the Web to exchange. Actually, my company, Cozy Cloud, is working
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-14 04:30:54
That's the general pattern that I see. The easiest approach is the most centralized approach... at least if you neglect the longer term systemic downsides of it. Maybe over-centralization should be considered a form of technical debt. It's more like a security vulnerability. Single point of failure /...\ decentralized, has global human-readable names and is secure. And it fails by the same overgeneralization as we had here. You don't need centralization as long as you have trust. So bitcoin/namecoin puts its trust in the majority as determined by processing power and solves the triangle by providing /...\ trust without centralization. An interesting question is what might we use instead of computing power to create a trust democracy that would allow the good guys to retain a majority. > This is basic to any relayed crypto peer to peer system including the one I built. Every packet
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:18:13
working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then the server can be downloaded and self-administered for the super hard-core. I agree physical decentralization /...\ such as the CAP theorem. My goal is for ZeroTier One to be reliable, zero-configuration, and very fast, and doing that without any centralized POP is really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network /...\ goals with this project is to make p2p lateral communication easy on public virtual LANs. The fact that peers use a set of centralized servers to find each other is IMHO secondary... making lateral communication easy enables people to easily develop killer apps that want to talk laterally. Once these
Thomas Levine [GG] Distributed Dance Party update 2018-06-18 23:34:00
networking events and Decentralized Dance Parties!   >>> AnarchaPortugal.com       CAMP DΞCENTRAL At Burning Man - August 25-September 3rd   [8f2b69a7-6ca4-49c1-a418-e69fdde6afeb]   CAMP DΞCENTRAL was a runaway success /...\ camping with us to speak!   Further details can be beheld at: www.CampDecentral.Com   And on The Official CAMP DΞCENTRAL Facebook Group.           Unconditional Love,   Tom, Gary and An International Cast Of Colorful Characters /...\ bc2d3e9f9f 31. www.CampDecentral.Com     https://theddp.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=41ff3b5e83e66fffdf53475f0&id=3c0b3d0b65&e=     bc2d3e9f9f 32. The Official CAMP DΞCENTRAL Facebook Group     https://theddp.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=41ff3b5e83e66fffdf53475f0&id=776b48f11b&e=     bc2d3e9f9f 33. HERE     https://theddp.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=41ff3b5e83e66fffdf53475f0&id=fa506402f8&e=
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 16:55:31
contrast with the Blind Idiot God concept from adam's http://adamierymenko.com/decentralization-i-want-to-believe/ It's more like each individual node is their own centralized authority. Richard, thanks ;) Dominic On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Paul Frazee <pfrazee@gmail.com> wrote: > Adding some thoughts to Dominic /...\ right now is PKI. Since PKI only works well for organizations, the > user-identities have to live within the orgs. That's a centralizing effect > that would still occur in an open IP/routing layer. > > After you've distributed identities, you need to distribute data-structures /...\ well, or we rely on central nodes to keep data-bases. Then, the messages > that construct the datasets need to be verifiable, so that Alice can rehost > messages from Bob without possibly altering them. So there are three > distinct challenges: authentication, message-verification, and dataset > coordination
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-03 11:04:25
concept from adam's >> http://adamierymenko.com/decentralization-i-want-to-believe/ >> >> It's more like each individual node is their own centralized authority. >> >> Richard, thanks ;) >> >> Dominic >> >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Paul /...\ only works well for organizations, >> > the >> > user-identities have to live within the orgs. That's a centralizing >> > effect >> > that would still occur in an open IP/routing layer. >> > >> > After you've distributed /...\ identities, you need to distribute >> > data-structures >> > as well, or we rely on central nodes to keep data-bases. Then, the >> > messages >> > that construct the datasets need to be verifiable, so that Alice can >> > rehost
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 10:51:29
such as the CAP theorem. My goal is for ZeroTier One to be reliable, zero-configuration, and very fast, and doing that without any centralized POP is really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network /...\ goals with this project is to make p2p lateral communication easy on public virtual LANs. The fact that peers use a set of centralized servers to find each other is IMHO secondary... making lateral communication easy enables people to easily develop killer apps that want to talk laterally. Once these /...\ functionally decentralized network I could type: ping <your IP address> ... and directly ping your box. Physical decentralization means that no central point of failure exists... that I can ping your box regardless of whether someone somewhere else turns off their system. Obviously this is technically a lot harder
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-04 16:04:39
think it's important to take a step back and think through the problem. I really want to push through the Little Centralization Paper (Tsitsiklis/Xu) a little more. >> >> To me the key thing is this: >> >> Our hypothetical "blind idiot /...\ with you. > > We've been toying with such an idea for a while too. > > But looking into this "little centralization paper" I'm left puzzled > what *function* the centralized thing should provide? That's what I'm scratching my head about too. Their /...\ much more > important (as you mentioned in your blog post too). I view efficiency > more like an economic term applicable to central service providers > operating services like FB. Efficiency is really important if we want to push intelligence to the edges, which is what "decentralization
juh [GG] Re: Redecentralize Radar, our super picky usable app directory 2017-02-28 23:20:00
creator about whether signal is decentralized > https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/ this is an interesting read. It says that innovation needs some kind of centralization, because of the pace of development. All users like to have a fast development which improves the UX from release to release. Decentralized protocols are blockers /...\ true. But it fosters my idea that we must talk about control, not about software. If it is true that some services requires centralization, we have to control the centralized infrastructure by appropriate means. For example: In Germany the top level domain "de" is controlled by a cooperative organisation, which /...\ distribute literature like Amazon is doing with its services. Not only literature from the public domain but also new literature. But the central stock would be our literal heritage which is only very slowly digitalized, in Germany at least. This organisation would distribute public domain E-Books for free
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 23:05:21
contrast with the Blind Idiot God concept from adam's http://adamierymenko.com/decentralization-i-want-to-believe/ It's more like each individual node is their own centralized authority. Richard, thanks ;) Dominic On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: > Adding some thoughts to Dominic /...\ right now is PKI. Since PKI only works well for organizations, the > user-identities have to live within the orgs. That's a centralizing effect > that would still occur in an open IP/routing layer. > > After you've distributed identities, you need to distribute data-structures /...\ well, or we rely on central nodes to keep data-bases. Then, the messages > that construct the datasets need to be verifiable, so that Alice can rehost > messages from Bob without possibly altering them. So there are three > distinct challenges: authentication, message-verification, and dataset > coordination
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-04 15:58:16
high performance the other 99% of the time when everything is working well. A decentralized network under attack will be more robust, but a centralized network *not* under attack will be faster, more consistent/reliable, easier to reach, consume less resources at the edge (important for mobile), and generally be easier /...\ discovery in an area like graph theory that let us build *completely* center-less networks with the same performance, efficiency, and security characteristics as centralized ones would rank up there with the discovery of public key cryptography. It'd be Nobel Prize material if there were a Nobel Prize /...\ plan to defend against this attack? Yeah, that's basically it. All my current thinking is around the idea of minimal central hubs that allow us to have the benefits of central points without the downsides. I'm working on a follow-up blog post going into more detail about
Thomas Levine [GG] Hi and mailing lists 2016-04-22 07:50:00
maybe combining that with this one would have been worth it.... Or maybe not. Travel is so expensive in the summer. Reading about the centralization of this mailing list, I recall that I am working on centralized mailing list software that is easier to administrate and is thus maybe /...\ less centralized. http://tlevine.sdf.org/ypotf/wiki?name=interestingness
Feross Aboukhadijeh [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] decentralization Yahoo group 2013-12-30 18:29:36
that list, my best take on what happened was none of that tech solved real problems better than centralizing did :/ > > I believe that's changing though and the next generation of challenges will be better served by decentralized solutions /...\ latish post in 2007, someone asking "why hasn't any of this > > worked, it's all got more centralized", to which the sophisticated > > answer is that we need a new type of open peer-based corporation... > > http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/decentralization/conversations/messages/6908 /...\ take home from my brief skim is that the forces of capitalism > > creating revenue flow are what won it for centralization. Open stuff > > is only used tactically (e.g. Google/Apple using the web to beat > > Microsoft). > > > > So yeah, new initiatives should
juh [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralize Conference, 17-18 Oct, London 2015-08-25 09:13:41
schrieb Francis Irving: > > http://redecentralize.org/conference/ > > It seems slightly odd having a centralized meetup for a distributed > group of distributed Internet groups. But it makes sense, and some > groups are organising team meetups around the same time. It's not odd, if used /...\ Really bad. I hope that there will be some discussions about the question: What do we really want to do? I think that the centralization of the net is a social issue. We are social animals. We go into the most crowded pub of the town just to meet /...\ social interaction? Do we want to go back to the status quo ante? Do we want to make a decentralized copy of the current centralized services? Or are we going to make something completely different? I have no answers. But we should listen to our inner voice. What
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] GNU Internet Stack / youbroketheinternet.org 2013-12-30 11:45:20
keep HTTP, improve on its usage model, then mix in new protocols like GNUnet that HTTP absolutely can't mimic. Regarding WebRTC, the central dependency is signal routing and IP discovery. You can distribute that system with lots of HTTPS hosts, but you still need to address vulnerabilities /...\ Francis Irving < francis@flourish.org > wrote: My instinct is that long game, they're right and HTTP is fatally flawed. It is a fundamentally centralizing protocol - the domain in a URL is both the name of the resource *and* the place you go to get that resource. Short term /...\ WebRTC is uncalled for - yes, right now you have to have some other identity system to use it, and that is necessarily central. But it's an open standard, pluggable compontent that can be used in lots of ways. If you have some other decentralized identification system, you can then
mempko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 08:45:25
make it anything else.  ZeroTier One can act as public or private and it makes sense to me why he chose some central points to handle the public case. Because to handle the public case, you need something that kind of looks like one system, and distributed systems that /...\ /div> <div><br> </div> <div>You focus on funding, it's easier to monetize centralized services so more venture capital is poured into creating them. The other post mentions technical difficulties, distributed systems are <i>hard /...\ good faith is difficult. Writing a distributed system which is also a good product is harder than simply writing a good product; centralization helps you outcompete.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>How might we get around these pretty substantial market
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 18:25:57
right now is PKI. Since PKI only works well for organizations, the user-identities have to live within the orgs. That's a centralizing effect that would still occur in an open IP/routing layer. After you've distributed identities, you need to distribute data-structures as well, or we rely /...\ central nodes to keep data-bases. Then, the messages that construct the datasets need to be verifiable, so that Alice can rehost messages from Bob without possibly altering them. So there are three distinct challenges: authentication, message-verification, and dataset coordination. Bitcoin, for example, solves all three of these problems /...\ ZeroTierOne Earth >> Address.  I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Jeremie Miller [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] decentralization Yahoo group 2013-12-30 19:12:17
that list, my best take on what happened was none of that tech solved real problems better than centralizing did :/ I believe that's changing though and the next generation of challenges will be better served by decentralized solutions. Jer > On Dec 30, 2013, at 7:36 AM, Francis /...\ latish post in 2007, someone asking "why hasn't any of this > worked, it's all got more centralized", to which the sophisticated > answer is that we need a new type of open peer-based corporation... > http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/decentralization/conversations/messages/6908 > > The take home from /...\ brief skim is that the forces of capitalism > creating revenue flow are what won it for centralization. Open stuff > is only used tactically (e.g. Google/Apple using the web to beat > Microsoft). > > So yeah, new initiatives should pay a *lot* of head for that. The time
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] snow: a new distributed secure virtual network 2014-07-04 15:27:01
developers respond to everything but port 80 and 443 being blocked by running their non-HTTP app over those ports and unnecessarily using a central server to connect two endpoints. Result: Central server becomes a single point of compromise for millions of users' communications. 3) Enterprise starts using
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] GNU Internet Stack / youbroketheinternet.org 2013-12-30 11:42:22
instinct is that long game, they're right and HTTP is fatally flawed. It is a fundamentally centralizing protocol - the domain in a URL is both the name of the resource *and* the place you go to get that resource. Short term is another matter. There are lots of incremental /...\ WebRTC is uncalled for - yes, right now you have to have some other identity system to use it, and that is necessarily central. But it's an open standard, pluggable compontent that can be used in lots of ways. If you have some other decentralized identification system, you can then
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-02 12:47:06
think it's important to take a step back and think through the problem. I really want to push through the Little Centralization Paper (Tsitsiklis/Xu) a little more. To me the key thing is this: Our hypothetical "blind idiot God" must be as minimal as possible. That /...\ provably minimal hub." The Tsitsiklis/Xu paper gives us a mathematical way to calculate exactly what percentage of traffic in a network must be centralized to achieve the phase transition they describe, but they do not give us an answer for what functionality is required. Imagine a stupid-simple
Robert Tischer [LibreList] RE: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 11:05:11
distributed CDNs and other technical decentralization techniques. Clearly, as soon as an entity commercially captures interactions between humans and their machines there is a centralization of power and an excellent point of surveillance and control. RT>I agree. But the Google, Twitter, and FB (NSA?) server farms /...\ soon. > > > > Robert Tischer > > Hiveware, Inc > > "You Can't Hack What Doesn't Exist" (meaning centralized servers) > > rtischer@hiveware.com > > > > Congratulations on your upcoming conference. > -- about me: http://holgerkrekel.net/about-me/ contracting: http://merlinux.eu
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 17:36:48
moment we are woking hard on contacts, agenda and file synchronisation. Decentralization will happen, the advantages are too high. And the "side effects" of centralization are frightening (reduction of the offer & alternatives, walled garden & silos, privacy ...) Firefox OS is on the agenda - we are accelerated by Mozilla /...\ Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized. Danny Knestaut on diaspora* at: https://diasp.org/people/0cd83c244ac3303a
Steve Phillips [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-01 21:02:50
About 75% of the way through, my mindset shifted from, "I am disappointed that he has given up on decentralization" to " zero-knowledge centralization  is a fucking fantastic idea." 0. Suppose I'm trying to, say, send an IM over a maximally-decentralized IM network that uses /...\ centralized zero-knowledge server for tracking the IPs and open port numbers of people or devices connected to said network, which chat clients somehow query so they know where the IM should be sent. In this scenario, do you think it's possible for me to get this information without
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-19 12:22:38
On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:30 AM, David Geib < trustiosity.zrm@gmail.com > wrote: It
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-19 12:52:55
what it is coordinating, via careful and clever use of cryptography. I was more interested in the over-arching theoretical question of whether some centralization is needed to achieve efficiency and the other things that are required for a good user experience, and if so how much. ZeroTier /...\ design internet > company that can't target ads at its users? How do you advertise a > system that doesn't have a central place where people can go to join > or find out more? How do you steer the evolution of such a system? Sure, those
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-20 00:56:27
works. I don't really agree that it never works. For all the failings of free market capitalism, it's clearly better than a centrally planned economy. The thing about functioning decentralized and federated systems is that they often work so well they become invisible. Nobody notices the *absence /...\ middle man. And it seems like the more centralized systems work even less. Look at Congress. Their approval ratings are lower than hemorrhoids, toenail fungus, dog poop, cockroaches and zombies. Say what you will about PGP, at least it's preferable to zombies
holger krekel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 19:16:07
Google now served Search & Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather centralized traffic point within the network topology because of: 1. Ownership: company control of the server, its code, resulting usage data, screen space coming to attention /...\ Think about all the stuff we already have that is built upon IP, and how all if it could be used in a less centralized peer to peer manner if IP were allowed to actually work. > > We do not need complicated things like libjingle, WebRTC, Maidsafe
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 12:35:23
network where decentralization is easy and one where it’s almost prohibitively hard. The former might contain lots of market niches for centralized products, services, and trust chains, but the latter all but *prohibits* decentralized approaches to anything. For decentralized networks, non-local firewalls and *especially* NAT present /...\ served Search & Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth > Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather > centralized traffic point within the network topology because of: > > 1. Ownership: company control of the server, its code, resulting usage data, > screen space
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] decentralization Yahoo group 2013-12-30 13:36:12
groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/decentralization/conversations/messages/26 e.g. a latish post in 2007, someone asking "why hasn't any of this worked, it's all got more centralized", to which the sophisticated answer is that we need a new type of open peer-based corporation... http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/decentralization/conversations/messages/6908 The take home from /...\ brief skim is that the forces of capitalism creating revenue flow are what won it for centralization. Open stuff is only used tactically (e.g. Google/Apple using the web to beat Microsoft). So yeah, new initiatives should pay a *lot* of head for that. The time has gone for naive geeks
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] decentralization Yahoo group 2013-12-30 19:48:09
groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/decentralization/conversations/messages/26 e.g. a latish post in 2007, someone asking "why hasn't any of this worked, it's all got more centralized", to which the sophisticated answer is that we need a new type of open peer-based corporation... http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/decentralization/conversations/messages/6908 The take home from my brief skim /...\ that the forces of capitalism creating revenue flow are what won it for centralization. Open stuff is only used tactically (e.g. Google/Apple using the web to beat Microsoft). So yeah, new initiatives should pay a *lot* of head for that. The time has gone for naive geeks hoping good tech
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 15:07:09
Since PKI only works well for > organizations, the user-identities have to live within the orgs. > That's a centralizing effect that would still occur in an open > IP/routing layer. So the alternative is web of trust. Harder to implement, harder to attack. And harder to make /...\ peers simultaneously. This requires a small computational overhead, but still way cheaper than proof-of-work or some such. > or we rely on central nodes to keep data-bases. Let's outright rejected that for not being decentralized. > Then, the messages that construct the datasets need
Bastien Guerry [LibreList] FLOSS4P2P: Call for Participation 2015-02-18 10:28:26
know that the Internet was originally decentralized, with protocols and services built by hackers. However, with the arrival of the celebrated Web 2.0, centralization and corporations proprietary platforms seem to have taken over. Moreover, this centralized structure is used by governments to increase surveillance (following Snowden’s revelations
Brian Cloutier [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 05:32:00
phrase. Your post reminds me of another sent to this list, I want to believe. You focus on funding, it's easier to monetize centralized services so more venture capital is poured into creating them. The other post mentions technical difficulties, distributed systems are hard and getting them to work /...\ good faith is difficult. Writing a distributed system which is also a good product is harder than simply writing a good product; centralization helps you outcompete. How might we get around these pretty substantial market forces?  On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM mempko < mempko@gmail.com
holger krekel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 12:49:04
distributed CDNs and other technical decentralization techniques. Clearly, as soon as an entity commercially captures interactions between humans and their machines there is a centralization of power and an excellent point of surveillance and control. best, holger > > > Hope to get an email from you soon /...\ Robert Tischer > > Hiveware, Inc > > "You Can't Hack What Doesn't Exist" (meaning centralized servers) > > rtischer@hiveware.com > > > > Congratulations on your upcoming conference. > -- about me: http://holgerkrekel.net/about-me/ contracting: http://merlinux.eu
Shannon Tyler Cunningham [GG] Re: (probably) the world's highest solar powered mesh network and offline media server setup 2016-09-09 04:32:00
with the NGO model because it is literally a corporate model. 501(c)(3)s in the US, for instance, must incorporate. That's centralization. If you are self-funded, why incorporate? Why does this need to be "scalable?" Why would it need major funders in the future /...\ should Ladakhis wish), rather than importing (national or global) hegemonic "knowledge" and systems of logic to Ladakh. The latter is also a form of centralization—of homogenization. And in the case of Ladakh at least, I'm sure you agree that much of the world has more
adam.ierymenko [GG] Re: So centralized! 2016-04-06 15:04:00
That brings up something that should go in everyone's "reasons things get centralized" list: Installing, maintaining, upgrading, and troubleshooting software installs is very hard and time consuming. Centralization delegates that responsibility to someone else for a fee, either monetary or in the form of implied consent to data mining
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] snow: a new distributed secure virtual network 2014-07-04 12:31:33
developers respond to everything but port 80 and 443 being blocked by running their non-HTTP app over those ports and unnecessarily using a central server to connect two endpoints. Result: Central server becomes a single point of compromise for millions of users' communications. 3) Enterprise starts using
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 12:31:45
much more > important (as you mentioned in your blog post too). I view efficiency > more like an economic term applicable to central service providers > operating services like FB. Efficiency is really important if we want to push intelligence to the edges, which is what "decentralization
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 11:57:52
eric@konklone.com > wrote: One line of research and technology that I personally find very exciting, and highly relevant to the idea of zero-knowledge centralization -- even though it's still some time off from being scalably useful -- is homomorphic encryption . Homomorphic encryption is a technique where you take two inputs
MikedePlume [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-20 12:04:36
really agree that it never works. For all the failings of free > market capitalism, it's clearly better than a centrally planned > economy. The thing about functioning decentralized and federated > systems is that they often work so well they become invisible. Nobody > notices the *absence
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 11:07:42
Think about all the stuff we already have that is built upon IP, and how all if it could be used in a less centralized peer to peer manner if IP were allowed to actually work. We do not need complicated things like libjingle, WebRTC, Maidsafe, etc. All we need
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 12:52:36
served Search & Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth > Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather > centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 14:44:40
Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth >> Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Richard D. Bartlett [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-03 11:08:18
ZeroTierOne Earth >> Address.  I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because of: > > -- Richard D. Bartlett Loomio co-founder rich@loomio.org
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 13:20:45
served Search & Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth > Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather > centralized traffic point within the network topology because of: > > 1. Ownership: company control of the server, its code, resulting usage data, > screen space
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-05 13:59:28
been writing quickly. "Identity" as in authentication, of who you are, and what you do. If our goal is to depend less on central hosts, then user data needs to move freely from one host to another. It would be hard, for instance, for me to jump from gmail
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-06 08:53:52
been writing quickly. "Identity" as in authentication, of who you are, and what you do. If our goal is to depend less on central hosts, then user data needs to move freely from one host to another. It would be hard, for instance, for me to jump from gmail
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-06 03:28:23
social" applications such as twitter. Maybe not as convenient as twitter, but decentralized, and ultimately more flexible. More flexible, because not having centralized control over the service means I will not be tempted to prevent other people building on top of it, as twitter and it's like
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-09 11:30:40
applications such as twitter. > Maybe not as convenient as twitter, but decentralized, and ultimately > more flexible. > More flexible, because not having centralized control over the service > means I will not be tempted > to prevent other people building on top of it, as twitter
frabcus [GG] Re: So centralized! 2016-04-06 07:24:00
quality, and ongoing maintenance / support the decentralized alternatives need to have to compete on user experience terms with the (ad funded, big tech co) centralized solutions! Francis
Bastien Guerry [LibreList] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 09:15:48
found it very clear, with great links, a "must-share" with people who don't grok the problem and history behind the centralized web: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/ Enjoy
Janislav Malahov [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 13:25:54
found it very clear, with great links, a "must-share" with people who don't grok the problem and history behind the centralized web: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/ Enjoy
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 11:31:47
Julien Rabier [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralize Conference, 17-18 Oct, London 2015-08-25 15:49:52
email to make sure you get invited first for tickets. > > http://redecentralize.org/conference/ > > It seems slightly odd having a centralized meetup for a distributed > group of distributed Internet groups. But it makes sense, and some > groups are organising team meetups around the same time
juh [GG] Re: So centralized! 2016-04-06 22:25:00
There is not only a list of reasons why services gets centralized but also a list of questions what decentralize service to use instead. I think it would be futile to consent about a decentralize service only on this list. I think all of us would like
anishmg [GG] Re: Which decentralized products do you use day to day? 2016-07-14 07:06:00
offline. I am also using SECN (Openwrt) Batman based mesh networking in the deployments I setup in rural places but still many things are centralized (name resolution, content serving, dhcp). Would love to make mesh networking truly decentralized
feross [GG] Re: Which decentralized products do you use day to day? 2016-07-14 14:34:00
webtorrent.io/desktop ) as a torrent client, almost daily.  I also use Instant ( https://instant.io ) to send files to friends without using a centralized service, or an app you need to install like Dropbox. I've used Patchwork ( https://ssbc.github.io/patchwork/ ) a bit, and it has a surprisingly large
ben [GG] Re: Public Money until tomorrow evening: 2016-04-11 11:25:00
anyone knows anyone at DG Connect, do not hesitate to send him my answers bellow (a kind of decentralized answer to a centralized survey :-) Hi Benjamin, did you try the email on the bottom of the survey? "Please do not hesitate to submit any additional supporting documents directly to CNECT
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 16:25:23
with great > > links, a "must-share" with people who don't grok the > > problem and history behind the centralized web: > > > > http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/ > > > > Enjoy! > > > > > > > Email had 1 attachment
Peter Rushforth [GG] Re: Redecentralize Radar, our super picky usable app directory 2017-08-03 10:24:00
think maps don't get enough recognition as a centralization story, but when you think about it, the objective of many map providers is centralization. We in the Maps for HTML Community Group have been working on fixing by pushing maps as a standard for integration with HTML
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-09 13:51:08
services I used with self-hosted solutions that I > control. > > I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to > centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and > experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized. > > Danny Knestaut
Danny Knestaut [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-09 14:15:09
Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized. Danny Knestaut on diaspora* at: https://diasp.org/people/0cd83c244ac3303a
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 01:52:00
used with self-hosted solutions that I control. > > > > I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to > > centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and > > experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 11:40:51
Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized. Danny Knestaut on diaspora* at: https://diasp.org/people/0cd83c244ac3303a
Jan Kunkel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 15:34:56
hosted solutions that I control. >>> >>> I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to >>> centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and >>> experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized
David Burns [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics 2014-07-27 20:49:10
bits, I liked part three. I particularly liked your answer to the person who wanted to claim that the standards process requires centralization.  Perhaps I am not typical of your conference audience. I agree with you about all that earlier stuff
Janislav Malahov [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 19:13:27
links, a "must-share" with people who don't grok the > >     problem and history behind the centralized web: > > > >      http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/ > > > >     Enjoy
Jan Kunkel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-11 22:18:27
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralization on Wikipedia 2013-12-13 23:15:34
www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/tech/web/vice-free-the-network/index.html I think a *definitive* article would be a much clearer history than that. Factually backing up statements about it originally being more centralized, and so on. So probably, finding more detailed references for the things the New Yorker article mentions? Generally, BTW, do please mention interesting articles
Ira [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralization on Wikipedia 2013-12-14 22:14:43
www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/tech/web/vice-free-the-network/index.html I think a *definitive* article would be a much clearer history than that. Factually backing up statements about it originally being more centralized, and so on. So probably, finding more detailed references for the things the New Yorker article mentions? Generally, BTW, do please mention interesting articles
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-09 13:22:03
Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized. Danny Knestaut on diaspora* at: https://diasp.org/people/0cd83c244ac3303a
Danny Knestaut [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 10:16:04
Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized. Danny Knestaut on diaspora* at: https://diasp.org/people/0cd83c244ac3303a
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralization on Wikipedia 2013-12-15 11:58:55
www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/tech/web/vice-free-the-network/index.html I think a *definitive* article would be a much clearer history than that. Factually backing up statements about it originally being more centralized, and so on. So probably, finding more detailed references for the things the New Yorker article mentions? Generally, BTW, do please mention interesting articles
Jacob Cook [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-02 19:00:50
script, and it costs me practically >> nothing to run. And it's a better deal anyway: none of the free, >> centralized change detection services will check every 5 minutes >> for you. IFTTT won't even check an RSS feed for you more than
Christian de Larrinaga [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 17:59:46
links, a "must-share" with people who don't grok the >>> problem and history behind the centralized web: >>> >>> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/ >>> >>> Enjoy! >>> >>> >> >> Email
Martin Dittus [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] decentralization Yahoo group 2013-12-31 02:34:28
Jeremie Miller <jeremie.miller@gmail.com> wrote: > my best take on what happened was none of that tech solved real problems better than centralizing did :/ > > I believe that's changing though and the next generation of challenges will be better served by decentralized solutions. What new challenges
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] decentralization Yahoo group 2013-12-30 20:38:25
Jeremie Miller < jeremie.miller@gmail.com > wrote: > my best take on what happened was none of that tech solved real problems better than centralizing did :/ > > I believe that's changing though and the next generation of challenges will be better served by decentralized solutions. What new challenges
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet" 2014-02-02 12:20:44
voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example, doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the future, delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself. Really interested
MikedePlume [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] GNU Internet Stack / youbroketheinternet.org 2014-01-01 11:50:23
Irving wrote: > My instinct is that long game, they're right and HTTP is fatally > flawed. > > It is a fundamentally centralizing protocol - the domain in a URL is > both the name of the resource *and* the place you go to get that > resource
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-02 01:16:33
very simple script, and it costs me practically nothing to run. And it's a better deal anyway: none of the free, centralized change detection services will check every 5 minutes for you. IFTTT won't even check an RSS feed for you more than once an hour. It doesn
maze@strahlungsfrei.de [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-02 23:56:09
very simple script, and it costs me practically nothing > to run. And it's a better deal anyway: none of the free, centralized > change detection services will check every 5 minutes for you. IFTTT > won't even check an RSS feed for you more than once
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-02 21:58:22
script, and it costs me practically >> nothing to run. And it's a better deal anyway: none of the free, >> centralized change detection services will check every 5 minutes >> for you. IFTTT won't even check an RSS feed for you more than
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] What *else* are people doing with blockchains? 2014-01-03 10:36:17
Also, just re-noticed Francis' post on DataCoin . The idea of hanging personal chains off of a central chain is interesting, and I guess mirrors the structure of the Internet, I just don't know of any other blockchain projects dealing with that idea. Pretty cool
Ira [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2015-09-07 08:47:29
becomes a gateway. We have pilots in Haiti, India, Ghana, Nepal and a few other places :) The idea of a decentralized web is very central to our approach of doing things. Looking forward to some great conversation and (hopefully) brainstorming! Cheers, Anish P.S. To find out more about XSCE
vaX Cymaticka [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 14:40:51
must-share" with people who don't grok the >>>     problem and history behind the centralized web: >>> >>>      http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/
Richard Marr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] GNU Internet Stack / youbroketheinternet.org 2014-01-05 11:35:55
Irving wrote: > My instinct is that long game, they're right and HTTP is fatally > flawed. > > It is a fundamentally centralizing protocol - the domain in a URL is > both the name of the resource *and* the place you go to get that > resource
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-05 16:13:36
script, and it costs me practically >> nothing to run. And it's a better deal anyway: none of the free, >> centralized change detection services will check every 5 minutes >> for you. IFTTT won't even check an RSS feed for you more than
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 12:40:57
Adam, ZeroTier has been high on my watch-list. Very interesting project. I'm guessing because of the subscription model that it has some central coordinator? What I imagine doing with ZeroTier is running private web services and distributing the names (" http://couchdb.paul ") among my virtual LAN. Is that feasible
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 21:12:46
links, a "must-share" with people who don't grok the >>>     problem and history behind the centralized web: >>> >>>      http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/ >>> >>>     Enjoy
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Decentralization and antifragility 2014-01-14 09:35:05
marked-up documents." At that point, you couldn't easily distribute the hosting media, so end-users couldn't create redundant hosts, and the centralized hosting removed optionality. Agree/disagree? On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Jacob Cook < jacob@peakwinter.net > wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet" 2014-02-03 09:53:54
voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example, doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the future, delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself. Really interested
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet" 2014-02-03 11:04:28
voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example, doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the future, delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself. Really interested
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics 2014-07-28 08:53:49
bits, I liked part three. I > particularly liked your answer to the person who wanted to claim > that the standards process requires centralization. Perhaps I am > not typical of your conference audience. I agree with you about all > that earlier stuff, how the NSA and GCHQ
christoph [GG] Re: Decentralized Web (SF) and Matrix Channel 2016-05-31 01:35:00
though I was the last person to learn about it. Maybe we need a central calendar for that ;) That's also something a couple Matrix channels might be interesting for. The chatter is low traffic enough to not be too spammy
Louise Ishka [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-03 08:38:06
script, and it costs me practically >> nothing to run. And it's a better deal anyway: none of the free, >> centralized change detection services will check every 5 minutes >> for you. IFTTT won't even check an RSS feed for you more than
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] First Person Technologies 2014-03-30 15:00:08
This is big " and the power of a common understanding of this concept+phrase will help us escape the  black holes of centralization . If I were to summarize why I’m so excited about this simple phrase it’s that it embodies the raw essence
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] First Person Technologies 2014-03-31 19:36:04
maze@strahlungsfrei.de [LibreList] Avatar "operating system for the internet" 2014-02-02 17:46:44
voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example, doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the future, delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself. Really interested
Anish Mangal [LibreList] Hello! 2015-09-02 22:02:28
becomes a gateway. We have pilots in Haiti, India, Ghana, Nepal and a few other places :) The idea of a decentralized web is very central to our approach of doing things. Looking forward to some great conversation and (hopefully) brainstorming! Cheers, Anish P.S. To find out more about XSCE
P S [LibreList] First Person Technologies 2014-03-29 17:32:15
This is big " and the power of a common understanding of this concept+phrase will help us escape the  black holes of centralization . If I were to summarize why I’m so excited about this simple phrase it’s that it embodies the raw essence
Marc Laporte [LibreList] Tiki Suite - Server, Web, Desktop and Mobile suite 2014-06-26 21:53:55
deeper & tighter integration. ClearOS is a cloud-connected Server, Network, and Gateway operating system designed for homes and distributed organizations. ClearOS is a central component of Tiki Suite and has a very large number of well integrated features to choose from: Mail & Webmail, LDAP, VPN & Firewall
Danny Knestaut [LibreList] Hello! 2013-12-08 18:21:21
Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience I've gleaned in trying to be decentralized. Danny Knestaut on diaspora* at: https://diasp.org/people/0cd83c244ac3303a
adam.ierymenko [GG] So centralized! 2016-04-04 15:38:00
seriously... I've been of the opinion for a while that there is absolutely no problem in using centralized systems to help build decentralized ones. If it speeds things up or improves your communication or whatever, use it. Every previous tech revolution used the present to build the future
Francis Irving [LibreList] Redecentralize Conference, 17-18 Oct, London 2015-08-24 21:52:52
leave your email to make sure you get invited first for tickets.   http://redecentralize.org/conference/   It seems slightly odd having a centralized meetup for a distributed group of distributed Internet groups. But it makes sense, and some groups are organising team meetups around the same time.   Please
Robert Tischer [LibreList] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 07:43:26
email from you soon.   Robert Tischer Hiveware, Inc “You Can’t Hack What Doesn’t Exist” (meaning centralized servers) rtischer@hiveware.com   Congratulations on your upcoming conference
frabcus [GG] Which decentralized products do you use day to day? 2016-07-14 02:35:00
regularly? Only one I'm using is Syncthing. And ironically I'm having to run a copy on my own personal server (i.e. a central server) to be sure all my clients (on phones and laptops) can get through whatever firewalls they're behind. What are you using? Francis
Torbjörn Johnson [GG] A distributed CDN 2017-03-07 09:43:00
free to use (View) but requires registration to become a broadcaster. It scales to unlimited viewing hours for free! Broadcasters never upload to any central and expensive video server but use their own server or Mac to broadcast. Take a look at: www.fairsharemediaworld.se (Beta) It uses Webtorrent (Thanks Feross
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Status reports - where are you with your work? 2014-05-02 16:18:26
needs a safe, easy and robust way to communicate. Unlike traditional messaging tools such as email or Twitter, Briar doesn't rely on a central server - messages are synchronized directly between the users' devices. If the Internet's down, Briar can sync via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, keeping the information
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-07 17:32:09
blind-by-design internet company that can't target ads at its users? How do you advertise a system that doesn't have a central place where people can go to join or find out more? How do you steer the evolution of such a system? All of these questions
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 00:48:45
line of research and technology that I personally find very exciting, and highly relevant to the idea of zero-knowledge centralization -- even though it's still some time off from being scalably useful -- is homomorphic encryption . Homomorphic encryption is a technique where you take two inputs, encrypt them with