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Redecentralize

We’ve had enough of digital monopolies and surveillance capitalism. We want an alternative world that works for everyone, just like the original intention of the web and net.

We seek a world of open platforms and protocols with real choices of applications and services for people. We care about privacy, transparency and autonomy. Our tools and organisations should fundamentally be accountable and resilient.

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Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-19 12:22:38
David Geib < trustiosity.zrm@gmail.com > wrote: It's more like a security vulnerability. Single point of failure, single point of compromise and a choke point for censorship and spying. Not a bad way of framing it… Try listing all the “trusted
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-14 04:30:54
term systemic downsides of it. Maybe over-centralization should be considered a form of technical debt. It's more like a security vulnerability. Single point of failure, single point of compromise and a choke point for censorship and spying. > I agree that root CAs are horrible. I have /...\ claim to any specific credentials, does it actually matter that he wants to call himself John Smith instead of John Doe? At that point the only thing you can really ask to be assured of is that when you communicate with "John Smith" tomorrow it's the same "John Smith /...\ yesterday. > Another point on this... History has taught us that governments and very sophisticated criminals are often much more ahead of the game than we suspect they are. My guess is that if a genuine breakthrough in trust is made it will be recognizable as such and those forces
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Re: Trustworthy Contract Handling - Comparison Of Approaches 2014-08-07 11:31:57
certainly changing state. Next I need a dispute (or debug) mode. This must be deadly simple: "pull the network plug". At this point I still want to be sure I have all *my* data and can access it. (Sorry for the complication wrt. DHT design. ;-) Now we know /...\ that I have one copy of all data I *really* care about which I can physically secure. At this point we can ask how we may update automated agents. Sometimes they might just have a single owner, but often control is to be purposefully split. At this point the GET/PUT /...\ request is permitted and complete for this object. It looks like a good idea to have a type property in the agent object pointing to another (signed) object which holds the script code and important: human readable terms and conditions. The other object would be the contract governing the agents
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Re: Trustworthy Contract Handling - Comparison Of Approaches 2014-08-15 17:46:37
Next I need a dispute (or debug) mode. This must be deadly simple: > "pull the network plug". > > At this point I still want to be sure I have all *my* data and can > access it. (Sorry for the complication wrt. DHT design /...\ know that I have one copy of all data I *really* care about > which I can physically secure. > > At this point we can ask how we may update automated agents. > Sometimes they might just have a single owner, but often control is > to be purposefully /...\ split. At this point the GET/PUT semantics are > no longer enough. We need some kind of custom, version control > alike check in script to be run to verify that the request is > permitted and complete for this object. It looks like a good idea > to have
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 11:50:49
Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make it work, then make it fast," I'm pursuing a strategy of "make /...\ that. (3) I actually view operational decentralization as being more fundamental and more important than infrastructure decentralization. #3 is sort of a philosophical point. Basically I think it's more important to enable later al communication functionally than to physically decentralize the network. I'm not saying the latter /...\ functionally decentralized network I could type: ping <your IP address> ... and directly ping your box. Physical decentralization means that no central point of failure exists... that I can ping your box regardless of whether someone somewhere else turns off their system. Obviously this is technically a lot harder
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 10:51:29
ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make it work, then make it fast," I'm pursuing a strategy of "make it work, then make it more /...\ that. (3) I actually view operational decentralization as being more fundamental and more important than infrastructure decentralization. #3 is sort of a philosophical point. Basically I think it's more important to enable lateral communication functionally than to physically decentralize the network. I'm not saying the latter /...\ functionally decentralized network I could type: ping <your IP address> ... and directly ping your box. Physical decentralization means that no central point of failure exists... that I can ping your box regardless of whether someone somewhere else turns off their system. Obviously this is technically a lot harder
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 11:40:41
Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make it work, then make it fast," I'm pursuing a strategy of "make /...\ that. (3) I actually view operational decentralization as being more fundamental and more important than infrastructure decentralization. #3 is sort of a philosophical point. Basically I think it's more important to enable later al communication functionally than to physically decentralize the network. I'm not saying the latter /...\ functionally decentralized network I could type: ping <your IP address> ... and directly ping your box. Physical decentralization means that no central point of failure exists... that I can ping your box regardless of whether someone somewhere else turns off their system. Obviously this is technically a lot harder
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:46:47
Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make it work, then make it fast," I'm pursuing a strategy of "make /...\ that. (3) I actually view operational decentralization as being more fundamental and more important than infrastructure decentralization. #3 is sort of a philosophical point. Basically I think it's more important to enable later al communication functionally than to physically decentralize the network. I'm not saying the latter /...\ functionally decentralized network I could type: ping <your IP address> ... and directly ping your box. Physical decentralization means that no central point of failure exists... that I can ping your box regardless of whether someone somewhere else turns off their system. Obviously this is technically a lot harder
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:18:13
Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make it work, then make it fast," I'm pursuing a strategy of "make /...\ that. (3) I actually view operational decentralization as being more fundamental and more important than infrastructure decentralization. #3 is sort of a philosophical point. Basically I think it's more important to enable later al communication functionally than to physically decentralize the network. I'm not saying the latter /...\ functionally decentralized network I could type: ping <your IP address> ... and directly ping your box. Physical decentralization means that no central point of failure exists... that I can ping your box regardless of whether someone somewhere else turns off their system. Obviously this is technically a lot harder
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-06 08:34:56
that and avoid detection. But you *do* need to trust them > to pass on the data when they should. This is the point at which I call for the agreement layer and active replication. Devices are down or disconnected for all sort of reasons. But only at a certain /...\ probability. Keeping them up at about 2/3rd of the time is usually easy enough. At this point a peer not passing data when they should can not avoid detection either. > There is no straightforward or > general way to cryptographically prove that they did indeed perform a > such /...\ accept or reject. >> >> (There is more, like maintaining nick names for wallets. But those are >> irrelevant at this point.) >> >> The important point: the wallet must make sure that it no order exceeds >> the senders balance and no receiver
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-03 10:45:39
impression so far is, that the paper mostly concerns efficiency and load balancing. I'm not yet convinced that these are the most important points. IMHO reliability and simplicity are much more important (as you mentioned in your blog post too). I view efficiency more like an economic term applicable /...\ governing the update rules. No peer simply accepts updates, the check the contract to verify the update complies with the terms.) At this point the design is down to a simple pointer stored with the first value pointing to a second value (the script, which in turn points
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:53:30
Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make it work, then make it fast," I'm pursuing a strategy of "make /...\ that. (3) I actually view operational decentralization as being more fundamental and more important than infrastructure decentralization. #3 is sort of a philosophical point. Basically I think it's more important to enable later al communication functionally than to physically decentralize the network. I'm not saying the latter /...\ functionally decentralized network I could type: ping <your IP address> ... and directly ping your box. Physical decentralization means that no central point of failure exists... that I can ping your box regardless of whether someone somewhere else turns off their system. Obviously this is technically a lot harder
mempko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 08:45:25
built <a href="http://firestr.com/">Fire★</a> on similar principles. <br> What is the smallest amount of fixed points to get the system to work, but my reason for doing it is slightly different than Adam /...\ make it anything else.  ZeroTier One can act as public or private and it makes sense to me why he chose some central points to handle the public case. Because to handle the public case, you need something that kind of looks like one system, and distributed systems that /...\ This is great! However, I suspect it would not have been possible if Adam build a completely decentralized system. Since he has some control points, it appears some capitalist thinks there is an upside. I am all for taking money out of capitalists if it means more decentralized systems
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-13 21:04:47
done before the attack begins, and is probably the only efficient way to recover if it *isn't* done before the attack begins. Another point on this... History has taught us that governments and very sophisticated criminals are often much more ahead of the game than we suspect they /...\ hybrid overlapping heterogenous solutions are the way forward for network robustness, then maybe a similar concurrent cake solution exists for trust. At some point I think someone is going to successfully attack Bitcoin. What happens then? I don't know. It has some value as a wire transfer protocol /...\ alternative where 90% or 99.9% of the peers you try could be Sybils. And that gets the percentage of defecting peers down to the point where you can start looking at the Byzantine fault tolerance algorithms to detect them, which might even allow defecting peers to be algorithmically ejected from
ben [GG] Re: Public Money until tomorrow evening: 2016-04-10 14:54:00
this survey...) is that decentralized ecosystems will emerge. Exactly as in 70's the rise of personal computers was impossible from the institutions point of view. IBM sold the MSDOS license to Bill Gate and in 1977 the CEO of DEC said "no one will ever want a computer /...\ high level of integrity. 4/ personal data portability: things are going well in France and in EU : regulations has begun to take this point as a fundamental right. But 1/ the texts are not perfect and 2/ many initiatives must be conducted so that an economy taking the portability constraint /...\ with better definitions (I can help :-) 5/ decentralization of the DNS and of certificates I cannot develop here an argumentation for each of those points, but just to show that we are convinced of what is stated above : at Cozy we are financing two Phd's with INRIA on those
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-19 12:52:55
efficiency and the other things that are required for a good user experience, and if so how much. ZeroTier’s supernodes know that point A wants to talk to point B, and if NAT traversal is impossible and data has to be relayed then they also know how much /...\ perhaps the first question to ask when designing a BIG is, what > information is it acceptable for the BIG to know? Good point about metadata privacy, but I think it’s ultimately not a factor here. Or rather… it *is* a factor here, but we have
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-10 11:51:10
application is hosted by remote servers which proxy to your bank's host servers. The details may have changed by now but, at one point, they asked for your username and password, then crawled your bank interface with an HTML-scraper. The issue with this system is, of course, data /...\ page, remote hosts, worker plugins) as part of the network, and so origin is more granular. I see.  That's about the point where app development became kinda confusing in our context.  After all the server is virtually there even though physically not. (Another - related - confusion /...\ that this is pretty much in line with the model >> proposed under the name Askemos.  From a practical point of view it also >> looks much like the way we program our agents. >> >> However I'm left with one question
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Shadow Internet: Please help us to get funding 2014-03-21 22:18:20
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 12:45:35
receiver can either accept or reject. (There is more, like maintaining nick names for wallets.  But those are irrelevant at this point.) The important point: the wallet must make sure that it no order exceeds the senders balance and no receiver can accept the same order twice
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Types of decentralization 2014-01-14 10:25:17
involving a third party translator or intermediary. (3) Physical decentralization A physically decentralized system is one that is distributed and robust from a physical point of view. Its parts can be split, moved around geographically, parts can fail without impacting the whole (too badly), etc. Here are some examples /...\ contact any other. This would be true even if they were all attached to the same ISP or if the network had single point of failure bottlenecks, so such a system may not necessarily be politically or physically decentralized. (3) A meshnet would probably be the ultimate example here
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-08-29 19:55:53
adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: Heh. I should clarify that: you have to do it from your own computer. That’s the point. I tested with an app called Newsfire, but it can be any local RSS reader, web browser, or URL fetcher. The point is to make
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-08-31 21:36:34
adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: Heh. I should clarify that: you have to do it from your own computer. That’s the point. I tested with an app called Newsfire, but it can be any local RSS reader, web browser, or URL fetcher. The point is to make
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 23:05:21
Adam Ierymenko >> < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: >> > Thought of another point about this… >> > >> > Decentralization doesn’t necessarily imply that all peers are of equal >> > size, just that all things have equal /...\ Address.  I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather >> >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 12:52:36
Thought of another point about this… Decentralization doesn’t necessarily imply that all peers are of equal size, just that all things have equal opportunity to be peers. That being said, I think the current network deployment pattern pretty much guarantees the domination of the ecosystem by massive /...\ Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth > Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather > centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 14:44:40
node too much implicit trust? On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Adam Ierymenko <adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com> wrote: > Thought of another point about this… > > Decentralization doesn’t necessarily imply that all peers are of equal size, just that all things have equal opportunity /...\ ZeroTierOne Earth >> Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Richard D. Bartlett [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-03 11:08:18
node too much implicit trust? On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: > Thought of another point about this… > > Decentralization doesn’t necessarily imply that all peers are of equal size, just that /...\ ZeroTierOne Earth >> Address.  I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because of: > > -- Richard D. Bartlett Loomio co-founder rich@loomio.org
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 18:25:57
node too much implicit trust? On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: > Thought of another point about this… > > Decentralization doesn’t necessarily imply that all peers are of equal size, just that /...\ ZeroTierOne Earth >> Address.  I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 16:55:31
Adam Ierymenko >> <adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com> wrote: >> > Thought of another point about this… >> > >> > Decentralization doesn’t necessarily imply that all peers are of equal >> > size, just that all things have equal opportunity to be peers /...\ Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather >> >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-03 11:04:25
Adam Ierymenko >> >> <adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com> wrote: >> >> > Thought of another point about this… >> >> > >> >> > Decentralization doesn’t necessarily imply that all peers are of >> >> > equal /...\ they would again quickly be able to create a >> >> >> rather >> >> >> centralized traffic point within the network topology because
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 15:45:37
other wallet. The receiver can either accept or reject. (There is more, like maintaining nick names for wallets. But those are irrelevant at this point.) The important point: the wallet must make sure that it no order exceeds the senders balance and no receiver can accept the same order twice
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-10 14:51:13
page, remote hosts, worker plugins) as part of the network, and so origin is more granular. I see. That's about the point where app development became kinda confusing in our context. After all the server is virtually there even though physically not. (Another - related - confusion might be interesting /...\ reading I can see that this is pretty much in line with the model >> proposed under the name Askemos. From a practical point of view it also >> looks much like the way we program our agents. >> >> However I'm left with
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-05 06:51:59
receiver can either accept or reject. > > (There is more, like maintaining nick names for wallets. But those are > irrelevant at this point.) > > The important point: the wallet must make sure that it no order exceeds > the senders balance and no receiver can accept
Marc Laporte [LibreList] Tiki Suite - Server, Web, Desktop and Mobile suite 2014-06-26 21:53:55
number of well integrated features to choose from: Mail & Webmail, LDAP, VPN & Firewall, etc. Most of the apps are available via a point & click web interface. For special needs or things not yet available as apps, it's a GNU/Linux distro based on a "Prominent North /...\ Communication (RTC) part of Tiki Suite is inspired by the excellent http://www.rtcquickstart.org/ guide. We want this to become as much as possible a point & click installation experience, using Prosody as the XMPP component. A key part of Tiki Suite is to have a high level of integration between
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 01:52:00
Audience is 1) power users* interested in changing to decentralized solutions, 2) in so doing, any developers / product designers reading to learn pain points big and small that need addressing. Markdown please (that's right, isn't it Ross?). And some pictures / subheadings to make it look good. And feel /...\ write. If you > want a blog post reviewing software, I can deliver. Especially if > you need it from the point of view of someone who is not > particularly tech savvy. If you want to give me a deadline and tell > me who your target audience
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-08-29 15:17:09
should clarify that: you have to do it from your own computer. That’s the point. I tested with an app called Newsfire, but it can be any local RSS reader, web browser, or URL fetcher. The point is to make a trivial and goofy but hopefully
hellekin [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 15:33:14
free software movement then, including "the current P2P diaspora". > nobody owns it. > Nobody or everybody, it depends on your point of view. Nobody owns the air we breathe, yet some abuse this fact to pollute it without restraint. Free software is a commons, it's made
Robert Tischer [LibreList] RE: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 16:36:16
free software movement then, including "the current P2P diaspora". > nobody owns it. > Nobody or everybody, it depends on your point of view. Nobody owns the air we breathe, yet some abuse this fact to pollute it without restraint. Free software is a commons, it's made
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Shadow Internet: Please help us to get funding 2014-03-21 14:52:13
Johan Pouwelse [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Shadow Internet: Please help us to get funding 2014-03-21 18:36:20
About the merit of Bittorrent.. Our framework offers generic SOCKS5 interface, so other apps can also use it. > Also what is the point of that graph on that last link - what are you trying to communicate to the user? And why are you using a line graph
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Shadow Internet: Please help us to get funding 2014-03-21 13:41:47
/records/records1201/featured03.html About the merit of Bittorrent.. Our framework offers generic SOCKS5 interface, so other apps can also use it. > Also what is the point of that graph on that last link - what are you trying to communicate to the user? And why are you using a line graph
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] First Person Technologies 2014-03-31 19:36:04
Bastien Guerry [LibreList] FLOSS4P2P: Call for Participation 2015-02-18 10:28:26
Tutorials on software tools (1h) Please email: lu.yang@surrey.ac.uk with your idea/proposals. The workshop will have both presentations and unconference-style participatory dynamics for finding points of collaboration and extraction of conclusions. ** Topics ** Focus on FLOSS software with some of the following features: Social: communication e.g. social-networking, microblogging, reworked email
Tim Retout [LibreList] kinko box for email encryption (was: Re: 30C3 starts tomorrow) 2013-12-28 19:02:10
your home and transparently PGP-encrypt your email. Slides from the talk are online here: https://kinko.me/30c3-presentation-the-future-is-encrypted/ (Disappointing to me, at this point, is that the website just says "final hardware available May 2014") - I can't find any source code, although they've promised to release
Stephan Tual [LibreList] London panelist? 2014-04-25 14:50:43
course have a representative for decentralized logic (ethereum), decentralized storage (maidsafe kindly agreed to join us) but unfortunately no one from a network point of view :(  Can anyone put me in touch with a decentralized networking expert, ideally someone with a completely opensource project (hardware or software), who might
Ross Jones [LibreList] Help/volunteer request - Interviewees for social ramifications of online privacy 2014-05-15 08:31:47
sure it’ll fix anything, but I for one am interested in how the issues are seen from a psychologist’s point of view. If anyone’s got the time and could mail me off-list, that’d be great. Cheers Ross. * London School of Economics
Tic Nticsebastian [LibreList] (no subject) 2014-05-28 00:08:52
like ArkOS on the raspberry's the Serval project for free messages and call's inside a city by using a hybrid "android access point". And many, many more that are here on your site. Eventually you guys made everything more clear for me :) There are some that are unclear
Goffi [LibreList] Hello + Salut à Toi / Libervia 2015-08-22 18:15:14
decentralized "social network" based on XMPP (XMPP is not only about instant messaging contrary to a popular belief). The good point about this is that we are standard and so compatible with other projects (the 2 only other XMPP projects able to manage blogging - to my knowledge
Anish Mangal [LibreList] The next billion. A broken web. Social implications. 2015-09-17 15:55:01
provide and internet websites we allow access to. Still, I would love to have a discussion to form some kind of: (1) Key points worth discussing with a community before enabling internet access (2) Have some kind of on-ramp as a template I know there are large foundations
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] PS: Re: [redecentralize] Re: Trustworthy Contract Handling - Comparison Of Approaches 2014-08-07 12:00:56
work with, because each object has it's private table space - zero DB > administration. However this language is certainly not the point. Little off-topic: also funny is BAIL's take on parallelism. Tuns out that is was a highly common pattern to read objects from via identifiers returned
Jeremie Miller [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] London panelist? 2014-04-25 08:01:11
course have a representative for decentralized logic (ethereum), decentralized storage (maidsafe kindly agreed to join us) but unfortunately no one from a network point of view :(  Can anyone put me in touch with a decentralized networking expert, ideally someone with a completely opensource project (hardware or software), who might
Kiktron RAKO [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] 2014-05-27 23:24:13
like ArkOS on the raspberry's the Serval project for free messages and call's inside a city by using a hybrid "android access point". And many, many more that are here on your site. Eventually you guys made everything more clear for me :) There are some that are unclear
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] 2014-05-28 00:20:46
like ArkOS on the raspberry's the Serval project for free messages and call's inside a city by using a hybrid "android access point". And many, many more that are here on your site. Eventually you guys made everything more clear for me :) There are some that are unclear
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] FireChat in Economist 2014-06-04 10:32:38
schrieb Paul Frazee: Multiple-server verification is a guard against untrusted peers, not closed source. That's the point.  People might not share their opinion regarding open source.  Still they might want at least some trust among each other
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] snow: a new distributed secure virtual network 2014-07-04 15:27:01
running their non-HTTP app over those ports and unnecessarily using a central server to connect two endpoints. Result: Central server becomes a single point of compromise for millions of users' communications. 3) Enterprise starts using DPI to actually verify that something on port 80 is HTTP to block
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] snow: a new distributed secure virtual network 2014-07-04 12:31:33
running their non-HTTP app over those ports and unnecessarily using a central server to connect two endpoints. Result: Central server becomes a single point of compromise for millions of users' communications. 3) Enterprise starts using DPI to actually verify that something on port 80 is HTTP to block
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics 2014-07-25 13:00:02
Excellent talk Nicholas. Some of my favorite points were "Who decides what you have to hide" and the distinction between "Authority by architecture" versus "Authority by evidence." Are there any projects you would like to link us to? On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 5:31 AM, Ira < shevski@gmail.com
Tic Nticsebastian [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics 2014-07-26 11:25:40
roll in. On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: Excellent talk Nicholas. Some of my favorite points were "Who decides what you have to hide" and the distinction between "Authority by architecture" versus "Authority by evidence." Are there any projects you would
David Burns [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics 2014-07-26 12:18:20
roll in. On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: Excellent talk Nicholas. Some of my favorite points were "Who decides what you have to hide" and the distinction between "Authority by architecture" versus "Authority by evidence." Are there any projects you would
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-04 15:58:16
basically it. All my current thinking is around the idea of minimal central hubs that allow us to have the benefits of central points without the downsides. I'm working on a follow-up blog post going into more detail about zero-knowledge hubs and what might be required there
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-04 16:04:39
that the paper mostly concerns > efficiency and load balancing. I'm not yet convinced that these are the > most important points. IMHO reliability and simplicity are much more > important (as you mentioned in your blog post too). I view efficiency > more like an economic term applicable
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-04 16:06:56
basically does work but not perfectly. I'm curious about how large it could scale though. I'll try it out at some point. On Aug 3, 2014, at 5:21 AM, Jörg F. Wittenberger < Joerg.Wittenberger@softeyes.net > wrote: Sorry, this was supposed to be a private
Ira [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralize Conference! 2015-08-07 21:31:57
take to get decentralized apps mainstream. Have fun and experiment. Try things out. Discover new ideas of what might be possible and unique selling points of decentralization. I would love volunteers to help. Those who've spoken up already and anyone else interested - let's get together on a planning
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 12:31:45
that the paper mostly concerns > efficiency and load balancing. I'm not yet convinced that these are the > most important points. IMHO reliability and simplicity are much more > important (as you mentioned in your blog post too). I view efficiency > more like an economic term applicable
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 11:57:52
basically does work but not perfectly. I'm curious about how large it could scale though. I'll try it out at some point. On Aug 3, 2014, at 5:21 AM, Jörg F. Wittenberger < Joerg.Wittenberge r@softeyes.net > wrote: Sorry, this was supposed
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-12 08:30:41
Sybil exposure. And if the gateway is down the clients can still participate in the DHT themselves so it isn't a single point of failure. Yeah, that's basically the identical idea except in your model the centralized node(s) are the defaults and the DHT is fallback
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-12 20:23:47
alternative where 90% or 99.9% of the peers you try could be Sybils. And that gets the percentage of defecting peers down to the point where you can start looking at the Byzantine fault tolerance algorithms to detect them, which might even allow defecting peers to be algorithmically ejected from
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-20 00:56:27
encoded shortwave analog to a “numbers station” that continuously broadcasts the current mesh net consensus for trust anchor points and high-availa bility nodes. I think we have two different problems here and it makes sense to distinguish them. The first problem
Christian de Larrinaga [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The next billion. A broken web. Social implications. 2015-09-17 18:26:32
other > neighbouring villages through wifi and directional antennas. Internet is > secondary. > > Also should make it clear at this point that this is NOT a commercial > service. There is no plan to charge "users" with "fees" - just the > upfront installation cost
MikedePlume [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-20 12:04:36
relatively lightweight. This doesn't work even with cities, where everyone is a stranger, and police are required. To bring the point home, we can consider a market as a collection of protocols. This conversation, or the re-decentralise thing, probably started by assuming these protocols all work perfectly
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-25 11:58:19
algorithm, often employing a single prechosen strategy. Constraints limit software, but do not dominate the situation as in law. At this point we might want to subclass "software".  Customer grade software as you're talking about here look like the assembly instructions coming with your furniture
holger krekel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 19:16:07
served Search & Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather centralized traffic point within the network topology because of: 1. Ownership: company control of the server, its code, resulting usage data, screen space coming to attention of users
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 12:35:23
Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth > Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather > centralized traffic point within the network topology because of: > > 1. Ownership: company control of the server, its code, resulting usage data, > screen space coming to attention
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 13:20:45
Gmail via a ZeroTierOne Earth > Address. I'd think they would again quickly be able to create a rather > centralized traffic point within the network topology because of: > > 1. Ownership: company control of the server, its code, resulting usage data, > screen space coming to attention
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 14:49:06
already do this naturally. I agree that using human society as the model is the most important step to be taken at this point. We have property, right and contracts. Every programmer will tell you that they can program everything they understand well enough to explain formally. Why not these
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-09 11:30:40
active agent). But I want this to be good English. So if "officiate" is better, we should switch. To the point: notaries are a property of a place. In the demo this part is not very pretty yet: http://ball.askemos.org/A876f1fe6998ca9d43f2e66c11a3f0d4a?do=notaries&version=19&login=public An agent (here the wallet application
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-09-12 17:14:40
will die. NAT is the biggest and most underestimated obstacle for P2P systems. I'm glad you're tackling it head-on. > Good point about metadata privacy, but I think it’s ultimately not > a factor here. Or rather… it *is* a factor here
Ross Jones [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello ! 2013-12-08 21:43:29
French or English) if I can, and I’m sure there will be plenty of discussion around some of the points you address - although primarily I suspect in English. So please, do keep post the specific topics you’re covering to the list
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello ! 2013-12-09 00:08:01
French or English) if I can, and I’m sure there will be plenty of discussion around some of the points you address - although primarily I suspect in English. So please, do keep post the specific topics you’re covering to the list
Ross Jones [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Video interview request: Red Matrix 2014-11-29 21:03:37
more pirates.  Not understanding urbit might make you the perfect interviewer, you'd know what questions you'd want answered as a starting point. If you wanted to do a ~15m video interview, I'd second and help you get it up on the site. Am sure Francis
Virgil Griffith [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Video interview request: Red Matrix 2014-11-29 13:21:14
pirates.  Not understanding urbit might make you the perfect interviewer, you'd know what questions you'd want answered as a starting point. If you wanted to do a ~15m video interview, I'd second and help you get it up on the site. Am sure Francis
Ross Jones [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Video interview request: Red Matrix 2014-11-29 21:50:39
more pirates.  Not understanding urbit might make you the perfect interviewer, you'd know what questions you'd want answered as a starting point. If you wanted to do a ~15m video interview, I'd second and help you get it up on the site. Am sure Francis
Christian de Larrinaga [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The next billion. A broken web. Social implications. 2015-09-17 12:07:38
internet websites we allow access to. Still, I > would love to have a discussion to form some kind of: > > (1) Key points worth discussing with a community before enabling > internet a ccess > (2) Have some kind of on-ramp as a template
Anish Mangal [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The next billion. A broken web. Social implications. 2015-09-17 18:22:33
internet websites we allow access to. Still, I > would love to have a discussion to form some kind of: > > (1) Key points worth discussing with a community before enabling > internet a ccess > (2) Have some kind of on-ramp as a template
Christian de Larrinaga [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The next billion. A broken web. Social implications. 2015-09-17 14:00:59
allow access to. Still, I > > would love to have a discussion to form some kind of: > > > > (1) Key points worth discussing with a community before enabling > > internet a ccess > > (2) Have some kind of on-ramp as a template
Jos Poortvliet [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] connecting 2015-09-17 08:09:46
need to > deal with dynamic DNS or stupid ADSL IP address changes.  It just works. Oh, that is an interesting point, yes. And with the .onion domain, one can be reached from the 'normal' web, too? Hey, I will create an issue for this, but - please
hellekin [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] connecting 2015-09-17 05:45:33
BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 09/17/2015 03:09 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote: > > Oh, that is an interesting point, yes. And with the .onion > domain, one can be reached from the 'normal' web, too? > 'Normal' Web users only use DNS to resolve their names
anishmg [GG] Re: (probably) the world's highest solar powered mesh network and offline media server setup 2016-09-09 10:04:00
some as a form of cultural imperialism. Anyway, I won't get much into that except to say that you raise very valid points. I hope that when Mikko publishes a follow up blog post, then he will look into these things. In the context of the Ladakh deployment
Peter Wang [GG] Re: Redecentralize Radar, our super picky usable app directory 2017-10-25 01:29:00
There is good energy starting to emerge around these two projects. Overall, I feel that the tech community is starting to approach a point of coherence around the need and importance of decentralization, and as the Early Adopter crowd floods into this space which is currently only inhabited by Innovators
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 00:48:45
basically does work but not perfectly. I'm curious about how large it could scale though. I'll try it out at some point. On Aug 3, 2014, at 5:21 AM, Jörg F. Wittenberger < Joerg.Wittenberge r@softeyes.net > wrote: Sorry, this was supposed
Janislav Malahov [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralize Conference! 2015-08-08 11:23:03
take to get decentralized apps mainstream. Have fun and experiment. Try things out. Discover new ideas of what might be possible and unique selling points of decentralization. I would love volunteers to help. Those who've spoken up already and anyone else interested - let's get together on a planning
Jos Poortvliet [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralize Conference! 2015-08-09 11:33:06
Ira [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralize Conference! 2015-08-08 14:29:11
decentralized apps mainstream. Have fun and experiment. Try things out. Discover new ideas o f what might be possible and unique selling points of decentralization. I would love volunteers to help. Those who've spoken up already and anyone else interested - let's get together on a planning call. Please
Danny Knestaut [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-09 14:15:09
damn, but I can write. If you want a blog post reviewing software, I can deliver. Especially if you need it from the point of view of someone who is not particularly tech savvy. If you want to give me a deadline and tell me who your target audience
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] on surveillance and decentralized crypto 2015-01-26 18:03:27
Brilliant point about governments persuing synchronised backdoor policies. This implies that to get one significant government to not implement backdoor legislation should force the rest to abandon that strategy. Another idea: governments require secure comms too - if not more so than individuals. Look at tor. Tor only works if anyone
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 11:40:51
damn, but I can write. If you want a blog post reviewing software, I can deliver. Especially if you need it from the point of view of someone who is not particularly tech savvy. If you want to give me a deadline and tell me who your target audience
Jan Kunkel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 15:34:56
want >> a >> blog post reviewing software, I can deliver. Especially if you need >> it from >> the point of view of someone who is not particularly tech savvy. If >> you >> want to give me a deadline and tell
Jan Kunkel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-11 22:18:27
Danny Knestaut [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 10:16:04
damn, but I can write. If you want a blog post reviewing software, I can deliver. Especially if you need it from the point of view of someone who is not particularly tech savvy. If you want to give me a deadline and tell me who your target audience
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hello! 2013-12-10 17:36:48
damn, but I can write. If you want a blog post reviewing software, I can deliver. Especially if you need it from the point of view of someone who is not particularly tech savvy. If you want to give me a deadline and tell me who your target audience
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] GNU Internet Stack / youbroketheinternet.org 2013-12-30 11:45:20
middled, they tell their users to shift to .is , .ch, .se or some other TLD with a different regulatory framework, thus avoiding a single point of failure.    If a new mechanism depends on the inconvenience of a browser extension anyway, why not automate the process people
Feross Aboukhadijeh [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] decentralization Yahoo group 2013-12-30 18:29:36
couple of commercial P2P type technology solutions compared to none over the previous 15 years. But xkcd summarizes those types of data points more succinctly :) http://xkcd.com/605/   > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:12:17 -0600 > From: jeremie.miller@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [redecentralize] decentralization Yahoo group
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-09 09:25:35
After reading I can see that this is pretty much in line with the model > proposed under the name Askemos. From a practical point of view it also > looks much like the way we program our agents. > > However I'm left with one question: how does
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-05 16:13:36
open) "market place" (but you can deploy just by giving the github url of the source of your app). From a technical point of view : Cozy is a "pPaaS" : a personal PaaS : a kind of Heroku but running on your server which will deploy your apps for you. (We forked
holger krekel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 12:49:04
techniques. Clearly, as soon as an entity commercially captures interactions between humans and their machines there is a centralization of power and an excellent point of surveillance and control. best, holger > > > Hope to get an email from you soon. > > > > Robert Tischer
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Decentralization and antifragility 2014-01-14 09:35:05
assert this: "The Web became less  anti-fragile once hosting became more complex than creating marked-up documents." At that point, you couldn't easily distribute the hosting media, so end-users couldn't create redundant hosts, and the centralized hosting removed optionality. Agree/disagree
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 12:41:34
subvert laws. For one, it's a dangerously inaccurate. For two, it's not what I'm here for. I can agree with this point. I'd add three: if you fight nation states you're probably going to lose in the long run, cause they have more resources than
Odinn Cyberguerrilla [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 13:00:02
dangerously inaccurate. For two, it's not >> what I'm here for. > > I can agree with this point. > > I'd add three: if you fight nation states you're probably going to lose in > the long run, cause they have more resources than
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 16:27:31
dangerously inaccurate. For two, it's not >> what I'm here for. > > I can agree with this point. > > I'd add three: if you fight nation states you're probably going to lose in > the long run, cause they have more resources than
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 13:39:30
dangerously inaccurate. For two, it's not >> what I'm here for. > > I can agree with this point. > > I'd add three: if you fight nation states you're probably going to lose in > the long run, cause they have more resources than
Feross Aboukhadijeh [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 13:47:26
dangerously inaccurate. For two, it's not >> what I'm here for. > > I can agree with this point. > > I'd add three: if you fight nation states you're probably going to lose in > the long run, cause they have more resources than
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 13:50:40
dangerously inaccurate. For two, it's not >> what I'm here for. > > I can agree with this point. > > I'd add three: if you fight nation states you're probably going to lose in > the long run, cause they have more resources than
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 19:16:39
dangerously inaccurate. For two, it's not >> what I'm here for. > > I can agree with this point. > > I'd add three: if you fight nation states you're probably going to lose in > the long run, cause they have more resources than
Kiktron RAKO [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] 2014-06-06 16:04:20
like ArkOS on the raspberry's the Serval project for free messages and call's inside a city by using a hybrid "android access point". And many, many more that are here on your site. Eventually you guys made everything more clear for me :) There are some that are unclear
Anish Mangal [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The next billion. A broken web. Social implications. 2015-09-17 22:29:01
with one another) locally and to other neighbouring villages through wifi and directional antennas. Internet is secondary. Also should make it clear at this point that this is NOT a commercial service. There is no plan to charge "users" with "fees" - just the upfront installation cost will be borne through
Robert Tischer [LibreList] RE: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 11:05:11
techniques. Clearly, as soon as an entity commercially captures interactions between humans and their machines there is a centralization of power and an excellent point of surveillance and control. RT>I agree. But the Google, Twitter, and FB (NSA?) server farms don't have to be privy
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Spring of User Experience 2014-02-28 12:31:08
your point, but secure products which don't succeed at marketing are  *not* "just as dangerous". Insecure but well-marketed projects are clearly more dangerous, as people put unfounded trust in them. My main problem with the Tox team is that they said pretty much this: they
hellekin [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 13:06:32
would dream of going into a retail store and walking out with > someone else's material property today. > Well, that's the point: "intellectual property" is not physical property. Only a fool would sustain that their ideas and intellectual capacity comes out of the blue
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Spring of User Experience 2014-03-01 10:22:03
holger krekel [LibreList] any meeting point for tonight? 2015-10-16 08:18:38
Will and everybody, is there some meeting point for tonight? I'd appreciate directions as i am bound to arrive 19:39 in the evening today at London St. Pancras international train station. Any pointers that can be given within the next two hours would be grand because afterwards
Robert Tischer [LibreList] RE: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 13:49:55
would dream of going into a retail store and walking out with someone > else's material property today. > Well, that's the point: "intellectual property" is not physical property. Only a fool would sustain that their ideas and intellectual capacity comes out of the blue
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-09 10:40:18
/2014/03/08/applying-user-agent-behaviors.html After reading I can see that this is pretty much in line with the model proposed under the name Askemos. From a practical point of view it also looks much like the way we program our agents. However I'm left with one question: how does this relates
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-11 11:15:55
application is hosted by remote servers which proxy to your bank's host servers. The details may have changed by now but, at one point, they asked for your username and password, then crawled your bank interface with an HTML-scraper. The issue with this system is, of course, data
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-11 10:45:08
application is hosted by remote servers which proxy to your bank's host servers. The details may have changed by now but, at one point, they asked for your username and password, then crawled your bank interface with an HTML-scraper. The issue with this system is, of course, data