Redecentralize

that fits like a glove) have engaged in social engineering forever. That's nothing new. Maybe the question is whether there are any new *solutions* to the old problems. Some combination of global instantaneous communication and digital storage might make it harder for people to behave dishonestly or inconsistently without /...\ trying to compute trust with no points of reference. Once you have some externally-sourced trust anchors we're back to heterogeneous and hybrid solutions. > On a more pragmatic note, I think you have a chicken or egg problem with the idea of bootstrapping before turning the system /...\ technology. I get the very basic surface of it, but I am really curious about how it might be used as part of a solution to the trust bootstrapping problem. If hybrid overlapping heterogeneous solutions are the way forward for network robustness, then maybe a similar concurrent cake solution exists

On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:30 AM, David Geib < trustiosity.zrm@gmail.com > wrote: It

what we _should not_ do, I don't see that as a viable suggestion... I am looking for technical solution(s) rather than "don't use that!" "don't use the internet!" "don't use facebook!" I am looking for someone /...\ This is surely no new concept to anyone on this list (the concept that we can't rely upon laws, need to use technical solutions to bypass what passes for government/corporation-state, etc.) but I have to say this net neutrality calls into stark contrast what we are doing with what /...\ laws, at least in my view. But it also made me think some more about this and realize that if we want decentralized protocols / solutions to spread at all, we have to do a way better job at being good advocates for them and talking about them incessantly to everyone

what we _should not_ do, I don't see that as a viable suggestion... I am looking for technical solution(s) rather than "don't use that!" "don't use the internet!" "don't use facebook!" I am looking for someone to say "Do this! or this. or that." (insert /...\ This is surely no new concept to anyone on this list (the concept that we can't rely upon laws, need to use technical solutions to bypass what passes for government/corporation-state, etc.) but I have to say this net neutrality calls into stark contrast what we are doing with what /...\ least in my view.  But it also made me think some more about this and realize that if we want decentralized protocols / solutions to spread at all, we have to do a way better job at being good advocates for them and talking about them incessantly to everyone

could be a good alternative to OwnCloud. Jan On 10 Dec 2013, at 11:40, Benjamin ANDRE wrote: > *"Anyone know of better solutions?"* > > We are working hard on Cozy so that it can be a good alternative to > some of > the tools /...\ then installed F-Droid and Aptoide to get some >> apps to >> interface with my server. It's not a perfect solution, but it's easy, >> and >> it required no rooting and ROMing, so I didn't have to brick a second /...\ myself >> notes >> when I'm not in front of a proper computer. >> >> Anyone know of better solutions? >> >> Danny >> >> >> On 12/09/2013 08:22 AM, Francis Irving wrote: >> >> Whats

ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but > it's worth remembering > that it is essentially a solution to this same problem. It all boils > down to using coersion to ensure > that participants in society behave in a approximately helpful manner. The lesson /...\ user* to ensure other *users* behave in helpful manner. This is a social problem, hence we don't look for a technical solution. We may however look for technical solutions to help. Like supporting the user in selecting peers they know, trust (to some extend within some specific context /...\ abstain from invention, we need to *model properly* to actually model property.) You want to depend only on responsible peers. That's a trust solution again. So not technical, but something the user MUST be able to decide. (No matter how hard this is for the implementor.) So the model

have to give Cozy a try in the near future. Danny On 12/10/2013 05:40 AM, Benjamin ANDRE wrote: "Anyone know of better solutions?" We are working hard on Cozy so that it can be a good alternative to some of the tools you mentioned ! We are still in beta /...\ Google Location Services. I then installed F-Droid and Aptoide to get some apps to interface with my server. It's not a perfect solution, but it's easy, and it required no rooting and ROMing, so I didn't have to brick a second phone. For Gmail, I looked /...\ plain text files and emailing myself notes when I'm not in front of a proper computer. Anyone know of better solutions? Danny On 12/09/2013 08:22 AM, Francis Irving wrote: Whats the list of services you're using instead of Google ones? Would love a writeup of what

blog post! Your deadline is the end of the holidays - so say January 2nd? Audience is 1) power users* interested in changing to decentralized solutions, 2) in so doing, any developers / product designers reading to learn pain points big and small that need addressing. Markdown please (that's right /...\ Services. I then installed F-Droid and > Aptoide to get some apps to interface with my server. It's not a > perfect solution, but it's easy, and it required no rooting and > ROMing, so I didn't have to brick a second phone /...\ plain text files and > emailing myself notes when I'm not in front of a proper computer. > > Anyone know of better solutions? > > Danny > > On 12/09/2013 08:22 AM, Francis Irving wrote: > > > >Whats the list of services you're using

attack is launched against the network, you can then designate them as trusted parties without any external contact. This is like the Bitcoin solution except that instead of using processing power as the limit on Sybils you use human face time. Then when the attack comes you already have trusted /...\ technology. I get the very basic surface of it, but I am really curious about how it might be used as part of a solution to the trust bootstrapping problem. If hybrid overlapping heterogenous solutions are the way forward for network robustness, then maybe a similar concurrent cake solution exists

Anyone know of better solutions?" We are working hard on Cozy so that it can be a good alternative to some of the tools you mentioned ! We are still in beta but we should release a stable versions of apps in january (we already released a stable version /...\ Google Location Services. I then installed F-Droid and Aptoide to get some apps to interface with my server. It's not a perfect solution, but it's easy, and it required no rooting and ROMing, so I didn't have to brick a second phone. For Gmail, I looked /...\ plain text files and emailing myself notes when I'm not in front of a proper computer. Anyone know of better solutions? Danny On 12/09/2013 08:22 AM, Francis Irving wrote: Whats the list of services you're using instead of Google ones? Would love a writeup of what

have to give Cozy a try in the near future. Danny On 12/10/2013 05:40 AM, Benjamin ANDRE wrote: "Anyone know of better solutions?" We are working hard on Cozy so that it can be a good alternative to some of the tools you mentioned ! We are still in beta /...\ Google Location Services. I then installed F-Droid and Aptoide to get some apps to interface with my server. It's not a perfect solution, but it's easy, and it required no rooting and ROMing, so I didn't have to brick a second phone. For Gmail, I looked /...\ plain text files and emailing myself notes when I'm not in front of a proper computer. Anyone know of better solutions? Danny On 12/09/2013 08:22 AM, Francis Irving wrote: Whats the list of services you're using instead of Google ones? Would love a writeup of what

Google Location Services. I then installed F-Droid and Aptoide to get some apps to interface with my server. It's not a perfect solution, but it's easy, and it required no rooting and ROMing, so I didn't have to brick a second phone. For Gmail, I looked /...\ plain text files and emailing myself notes when I'm not in front of a proper computer. Anyone know of better solutions? Danny On 12/09/2013 08:22 AM, Francis Irving wrote: Whats the list of services you're using instead of Google ones? Would love a writeup of what /...\ last one. I've since cancelled my Google account and have replaced almost all of the Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience

central bugaboo. The central problem is trust. What and who do you trust, and why, and how do you compute this? The solution most of the Internet uses is for real-world political entities (corporations, governments, etc.) to create signing certificates. This is also the solution ZeroTier uses, more /...\ shipping with acceptable defaults. If a user wanted to change them they could, but they don't have to. Right. Maybe a good solution to the trust problem is exactly this: Build in acceptable trust defaults, but let the user change them if they want or add new entities

focused, persistent group of (governmental / corporation-state / corporate / random malicious individual) actor(s). I do think that migrating to open source (and free) solutions will help remove funding from such entities and will encourage a more healthy and vibrant society through transparency and sharing. I should note that Microsoft /...\ think of achieving victory over the opponent." - Odagiri Sekiei (Muji-Shin-Jen ryū) Nor do I think that technological solutions are everything. But that's what I'm asking about here. 3) That said, here's getting to what I intended to emphasize: The process of decentralization needs

challenges that Jer referred to coming through. Specifically over the past year I have worked on a couple of commercial P2P type technology solutions compared to none over the previous 15 years. But xkcd summarizes those types of data points more succinctly :) http://xkcd.com/605/   > Date /...\ better than centralizing did :/ > > I believe that's changing though and the next generation of challenges will be better served by decentralized solutions. > > Jer > > > On Dec 30, 2013, at 7:36 AM, Francis Irving < francis@flourish.org > wrote: > > > > This

persistent group of (governmental / corporation-state / corporate / random malicious individual) actor(s).  I do think that migrating to open source (and free) solutions will help remove funding from such entities and will encourage a more healthy and vibrant society through transparency and sharing.  I should note /...\ think of achieving victory over the opponent." - Odagiri Sekiei (Muji-Shin-Jen ryū)  Nor do I think that technological solutions are everything. But that's what I'm asking about here. 3) That said, here's getting to what I intended to emphasize: The process

focused, persistent group of (governmental / corporation-state / corporate / random malicious individual) actor(s).  I do think that migrating to open source (and free) solutions will help remove funding from such entities and will encourage a more healthy and vibrant society through transparency and sharing.  I should note that /...\ think of achieving victory over the opponent." - Odagiri Sekiei (Muji-Shin-Jen ryū)  Nor do I think that technological solutions are everything. But that's what I'm asking about here. 3) That said, here's getting to what I intended to emphasize: The process of decentralization needs

persistent group of (governmental / corporation-state / corporate / random malicious individual) actor(s).  I do think that migrating to open source (and free) solutions will help remove funding from such entities and will encourage a more healthy and vibrant society through transparency and sharing.  I should note /...\ think of achieving victory over the opponent." - Odagiri Sekiei (Muji-Shin-Jen ryū)  Nor do I think that technological solutions are everything. But that's what I'm asking about here. 3) That said, here's getting to what I intended to emphasize: The process

focused, persistent group of (governmental / corporation-state / corporate / random malicious individual) actor(s).  I do think that migrating to open source (and free) solutions will help remove funding from such entities and will encourage a more healthy and vibrant society through transparency and sharing.  I should note that /...\ think of achieving victory over the opponent." - Odagiri Sekiei (Muji-Shin-Jen ryū)  Nor do I think that technological solutions are everything. But that's what I'm asking about here. 3) That said, here's getting to what I intended to emphasize: The process of decentralization needs

persistent group of (governmental / corporation-state / corporate / random malicious individual) actor(s).  I do think that migrating to open source (and free) solutions will help remove funding from such entities and will encourage a more healthy and vibrant society through transparency and sharing.  I should note /...\ think of achieving victory over the opponent." - Odagiri Sekiei (Muji-Shin-Jen ryū)  Nor do I think that technological solutions are everything. But that's what I'm asking about here. 3) That said, here's getting to what I intended to emphasize: The process

ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but >> it's worth remembering >> that it is essentially a solution to this same problem. It all boils >> down to using coersion to ensure >> that participants in society behave in a approximately helpful /...\ massive players by >> > writing inequality into the network topology itself. Even if a more >> > democratic many-smaller-players solution could win in the ecosystem and even >> > in the market place, it can’t right now because

they cooperate. Now, "ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but it's worth remembering that it is essentially a solution to this same problem. It all boils down to using coersion to ensure that participants in society behave in a approximately helpful manner. Animals /...\ domination of the ecosystem by massive players by writing inequality into the network topology itself. Even if a more democratic many-smaller-players solution could win in the ecosystem and even in the market place, it can’t right now because it is too technically challenging to deploy

ensure that they cooperate. Now, "ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but it's worth remembering that it is essentially a solution to this same problem. It all boils down to using coersion to ensure that participants in society behave in a approximately helpful manner. Animals /...\ domination of the ecosystem by massive players by writing inequality into the network topology itself. Even if a more democratic many-smaller-players solution could win in the ecosystem and even in the market place, it can’t right now because it is too technically challenging

ensure that they cooperate. Now, "ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but it's worth remembering that it is essentially a solution to this same problem. It all boils down to using coersion to ensure that participants in society behave in a approximately helpful manner. Animals /...\ domination of the ecosystem by massive players by writing inequality into the network topology itself. Even if a more democratic many-smaller-players solution could win in the ecosystem and even in the market place, it can’t right now because it is too technically challenging

ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but >> it's worth remembering >> that it is essentially a solution to this same problem. It all boils >> down to using coersion to ensure >> that participants in society behave in a approximately /...\ massive players by >> > writing inequality into the network topology itself. Even if a more >> > democratic many-smaller-players solution could win in the ecosystem and even >> > in the market place, it can’t right now because it is too technically

concept deeply imbued into human society, but >> >> it's worth remembering >> >> that it is essentially a solution to this same problem. It all boils >> >> down to using coersion to ensure >> >> that participants in society /...\ writing inequality into the network topology itself. Even if a more >> >> > democratic many-smaller-players solution could win in the ecosystem >> >> > and even >> >> > in the market place, it can’t right now because

have to update my online accounts and call up my friends. But maybe I prefer yahoo's interface? Well, tough luck. So the solution is RSA keypairs. If users sign their messages, it matters less who hosts and carries them. I could jump between yahoo and gmail any time /...\ publish the verifications. (1) If there's a compromise, the same peers can publish a warning (revoke the verification). That gives a more usable solution to "my account may have been hacked because it's sending weird emails" -- you create a new account, call up your friends, and have them

identity is a) independent of the notary (you can just add or remove them like here http://ball.askemos.org/A876f1fe6998ca9d43f2e66c11a3f0d4a?do=notaries&version=17&login=public ) So the solution is RSA keypairs. If users sign their messages, it matters less who hosts and carries them. I could jump between yahoo and gmail any time. I could jump /...\ verifications. (1) If there's a compro mise, the same peers can publish a warning (revoke the verification). That gives a more usable solution to "my account may have been hacked because it's sending weird emails" -- you create a new account, call up your friends, and have them flag

person technologies for everybody. Without them our democracies and marketplaces will also continue to be compromised, because both require those three virtues of privacy. ... Solutions here will come, like our own voices, from our sovereign and independent selves, using tools that extend our native capabilities. They

last one. I've since cancelled my Google account and have replaced almost all of the Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience

democracy" is > "necessary", that "transparency" is "appropriate", or that "technology" > will bring all solutions to all problems. They often fail to consider > the genealogy and diversity of situations and tend to remove from "the > big picture

about deriving our technical efforts from clear and thorough thinking rather than simply making stuff up based upon hunches? Shallow thinking makes shallow solutions. :-) Nicholas. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJT1JSJAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6uAIH/24PoJmJcz5IPclkIixVpAMV plyx8WSHXG1TFRdvBdhMwU6RWF402fFbllKjfoxdVczOhc7tYJbp+eOZykP9mU/K 2JKEuHGLBp0Ud53zOSVjsWVFSq4NvASkDggnMyV3Dsr+DWyxL8wTCDQzUkr8o7bs eFbwPKmHifZXSJvdd2TNgEFfkXaLb0OaLVE8DAWHdVHDMtgcyGfTGvo84pMy08Oq 6C63T1S0e4T6IHozyHTiRsROtp06I2Mu5q4TBFNSr0FOM6ySa15nLX/K24cp7gSF 7y7OVklm1dQdCMBfJ7L9h4L06kdxHTmnlCLYCAA+2Je7+Avmyq6HB7zlPxgXCz8

reliable.  What's the value of n virtual asset stored at mobile when the mobile is lost?  Manual backup is no solution.  As long as data does not outlive gadgets there is little value left

better than centralizing did :/ > > I believe that's changing though and the next generation of challenges will be better served by decentralized solutions. What new challenges in particular do you have in mind

attack is launched against the network, you can then designate them as trusted parties without any external contact. This is like the Bitcoin solution except that instead of using processing power as the limit on Sybils you use human face time. Then when the attack comes you already have trusted

better than centralizing did :/ > > I believe that's changing though and the next generation of challenges will be better served by decentralized solutions. What new challenges in particular do you have in mind

real problems better than centralizing did :/ I believe that's changing though and the next generation of challenges will be better served by decentralized solutions. Jer > On Dec 30, 2013, at 7:36 AM, Francis Irving <francis@flourish.org> wrote: > > This archive is pretty amazing

last one. I've since cancelled my Google account and have replaced almost all of the Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I control. I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge and experience

trusted to reliably deliver the request. Traditional broadcast media can actually solve both of them in different ways. Key distribution has the narrower solution. If you're The New York Times or CBS then you can e.g. print the QR code of your public key fingerprint on the back page

necessary", that "transparency" is "appropriate", or that > "technology" > > will bring all solutions to all problems. They often fail to consider > > the genealogy and diversity of situations and tend to remove from "the > > big picture

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with

some genius formalizing it, this should then lead to a proof b) betting for not being true and try to come up with a solution, a proof by counter example c) betting for being true and develop concepts to deal with it. (Actually a 4th one: ignore the problem

consistent database is not enough here: we can't >> trust the peer to store a correct value. >> >> Our solution is rather simple. Each wallet is replicated (tolerating >> byzantine faults) at several notaries. >> >> For a small world (like

domination of the ecosystem by massive players by writing inequality into the network topology itself. Even if a more democratic many-smaller-players solution could win in the ecosystem and even in the market place, it can’t right now because it is too technically challenging to deploy

this kind received on the list. > In the interview, I had understood that the project was about "open > source" solutions. Now, open source is already free software without > ethics, but from there to "open read-only source", there's as huge

almost free world that corporations push now is no help because people are not used to paying for software anymore, or services. Maybe the solution is to just charge for this stuff and fight the race to the bottom. Another idea I had is charge corporations for the right

ongoing maintenance / support the decentralized alternatives need to have to compete on user experience terms with the (ad funded, big tech co) centralized solutions! Francis

that "democracy" is "necessary", that "transparency" is "appropriate", or that "technology" will bring all solutions to all problems. They often fail to consider the genealogy and diversity of situations and tend to remove from "the big picture" anything

since cancelled my Google account and have replaced almost all > of the Google services I used with self-hosted solutions that I > control. > > I'm interested in learning about the various alternatives to > centralization, and I'm happy to share what little knowledge

about deriving our technical efforts from clear and thorough thinking rather than simply making stuff up based upon hunches? Shallow thinking makes shallow solutions. :-) Nicholas. -- "You can't negotiate with reality." "You can, but it drives a really hard bargain

must not change.) Having a eventually consistent database is not enough here: we can't trust the peer to store a correct value. Our solution is rather simple. Each wallet is replicated (tolerating byzantine faults) at several notaries. For a small world (like 5-20 peers) this could

must not change.) Having a eventually consistent database is not enough here: we can't trust the peer to store a correct value. Our solution is rather simple.  Each wallet is replicated (tolerating byzantine faults) at several notaries. For a small world (like 5-20 peers) this could

Having a eventually consistent database is not enough here: we can't > trust the peer to store a correct value. > > Our solution is rather simple. Each wallet is replicated (tolerating > byzantine faults) at several notaries. > > For a small world (like 5-20 peers) this

fancy word for proprietary software, or am I mistaken? In the interview, I had understood that the project was about "open source" solutions. Now, open source is already free software without ethics, but from there to "open read-only source", there's as huge

Fluidinfo, I'm have far too much fun and learning a lot in the meantime and it's good to imagine / play / build solutions as a mechanism for exploring a problem. To butcher an analogy, it's a large garden and may many flowers bloom. Finally, I think

ideologies today assume that "progress" is "good", that "democracy" is > "necessary", that "transparency" is "appropriate", or that "technology" > will bring all solutions to all problems.  They often fail to consider > the genealogy and diversity of situations and tend to remove from "the > big picture

technical efforts from clear and thorough > thinking rather than simply making stuff up based upon hunches? > > Shallow thinking makes shallow solutions. > > :-) > > Nicholas. > > > > -- "You can't negotiate with reality." "You can, but it drives a > really

person technologies for everybody. Without them our democracies and marketplaces will also continue to be compromised, because both require those three virtues of privacy. ... Solutions here will come, like our own voices, from our sovereign and independent selves, using tools that extend our native capabilities. They

awful lot of ideologies today assume that "progress" is "good", that "democracy" is "necessary", that "transparency" is "appropriate", or that "technology" will bring all solutions to all problems.  They often fail to consider the genealogy and diversity of situations and tend to remove from "the big picture" anything

them from you, just I guess hoping that questions like these will always be asked by ourselves to ourselves when we come up with solutions like you have. I personally like the idea of cacheing entire resources like Wikipedia and expanding access (hence by support of Swartz attempting to download