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Redecentralize

We’ve had enough of digital monopolies and surveillance capitalism. We want an alternative world that works for everyone, just like the original intention of the web and net.

We seek a world of open platforms and protocols with real choices of applications and services for people. We care about privacy, transparency and autonomy. Our tools and organisations should fundamentally be accountable and resilient.

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Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 14:49:06
there is another challenge to decentralization that simply > having addressability is not sufficient to address. > > Security. > > Building truly p2p systems must deal with not only regular distributed > systems problems, > but also the problem of incenting the participants in the network to > behave /...\ properly. > This is trivial if I own all the computers that run my system. But the > system runs outside > my own datacenter, on other people's computers then I need some was to > ensure that > they cooperate. > Now, "ownership" is a concept /...\ chaining it to something when I am not using it, and you maintain > ownership of real estate by > interfacing with systems of contracts and laws that date back > thousands of years. Basically, you just > punish people who transgress the property rights, this requires police
mempko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 08:45:25
firestr.com/">Fire★</a> on similar principles. <br> What is the smallest amount of fixed points to get the system to work, but my reason for doing it is slightly different than Adam's.<br> <br> Yes, it is HARD /...\ distributed systems to work, but only if we try to treat them as a single system! Lots of distributed systems research is based on this notion, "How can I build a multi-node system that appears to be one."<br> <br> If we abandon /...\ should it be distributed?<br> <br> I propose we abandon the notion that a all distributed system should act like one system. Probably the only reason we think so is because corporations really care about this notion. But a free society
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 18:25:57
deal with abusive actors in the network (DoSers, attackers) and with schemes to share resources (bandwidth, sometimes disk-space). This is where the reputation system gets involved. For some interesting reading, I'll refer you to Dominic's project, https://github.com/dominictarr/secure-scuttlebutt /...\ brilliant, but I think there is another challenge to decentralization that simply having addressability is not sufficient to address. Security. Building truly p2p systems must deal with not only regular distributed systems problems, but also the problem of incenting the participants in the network to behave properly. This is trivial /...\ computers that run my system. But the system runs outside my own datacenter, on other people's computers then I need some was to ensure that they cooperate. Now, "ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but it's worth remembering that it is essentially a solution
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-03 11:04:25
DoSers, >> > attackers) and with schemes to share resources (bandwidth, sometimes >> > disk-space). This is where the reputation system gets involved. >> > >> > For some interesting reading, I'll refer you to Dominic's project, >> > https://github.com/dominictarr/secure-scuttlebutt. /...\ sufficient to address. >> >> >> >> Security. >> >> >> >> Building truly p2p systems must deal with not only regular distributed >> >> systems problems, >> >> but also the problem of incenting the participants /...\ network to >> >> behave properly. >> >> This is trivial if I own all the computers that run my system. But the >> >> system runs outside >> >> my own datacenter, on other people's computers then I need some
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 16:55:31
abusive actors in the network (DoSers, > attackers) and with schemes to share resources (bandwidth, sometimes > disk-space). This is where the reputation system gets involved. > > For some interesting reading, I'll refer you to Dominic's project, > https://github.com/dominictarr/secure-scuttlebutt. /...\ decentralization that simply >> having addressability is not sufficient to address. >> >> Security. >> >> Building truly p2p systems must deal with not only regular distributed >> systems problems, >> but also the problem of incenting the participants in the network /...\ behave properly. >> This is trivial if I own all the computers that run my system. But the >> system runs outside >> my own datacenter, on other people's computers then I need some was to >> ensure that >> they cooperate
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 23:05:21
abusive actors in the network (DoSers, > attackers) and with schemes to share resources (bandwidth, sometimes > disk-space). This is where the reputation system gets involved. > > For some interesting reading, I'll refer you to Dominic's project, > https://github.com/dominictarr/secure-scuttlebutt /...\ decentralization that simply >> having addressability is not sufficient to address. >> >> Security. >> >> Building truly p2p systems must deal with not only regular distributed >> systems problems, >> but also the problem of incenting the participants in the network /...\ behave properly. >> This is trivial if I own all the computers that run my system. But the >> system runs outside >> my own datacenter, on other people's computers then I need some was to >> ensure that >> they cooperate
Richard D. Bartlett [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-03 11:08:18
brilliant, but I think there is another challenge to decentralization that simply having addressability is not sufficient to address. Security. Building truly p2p systems must deal with not only regular distributed systems problems, but also the problem of incenting the participants in the network to behave properly. This is trivial /...\ computers that run my system. But the system runs outside my own datacenter, on other people's computers then I need some was to ensure that they cooperate. Now, "ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but it's worth remembering that it is essentially a solution /...\ bicycle by chaining it to something when I am not using it, and you maintain ownership of real estate by interfacing with systems of contracts and laws that date back thousands of years. Basically, you just punish people who transgress the property rights, this requires police and lawyers and courts
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 14:44:40
brilliant, but I think there is another challenge to decentralization that simply having addressability is not sufficient to address. Security. Building truly p2p systems must deal with not only regular distributed systems problems, but also the problem of incenting the participants in the network to behave properly. This is trivial /...\ computers that run my system. But the system runs outside my own datacenter, on other people's computers then I need some was to ensure that they cooperate. Now, "ownership" is a concept deeply imbued into human society, but it's worth remembering that it is essentially /...\ bicycle by chaining it to something when I am not using it, and you maintain ownership of real estate by interfacing with systems of contracts and laws that date back thousands of years. Basically, you just punish people who transgress the property rights, this requires police and lawyers and courts
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-07 17:32:09
BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hi Adam, This is a great post. I share your frustration with the difficulty of building decentralised systems that are usable, efficient and secure. But I have some doubts about your argument. I don't think the Tsitsiklis/Xu paper tells us anything about centralisation /...\ decentralisation in general. It gives a very abstract model of a system where some fraction of a scarce resource can be allocated wherever it's needed. I'm not surprised that such a system has different queueing behaviour from a system with fixed allocation. But it seems to me that /...\ lookup and routing problems you're aiming to solve with ZeroTier. Second, the advantage is gained by having a panoptic view of the whole system - far from being a blind idiot, the allocator needs to know what's happening everywhere, and needs to be able to send resources anywhere
mempko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 18:11:20
solve this issue is supporting the idea of basic income. I really do believe more people would spend more time working on decentralized systems if they didn't have to worry about money. I also think you will have a more rich society as you described through the "paradox /...\ tech we use today was funded by the government. Even todays VC investments would vanish instantly without government pumping money into the system. If we get funding without control, what could be better? In the meantime, how do we get people to pay for the tech? The free and almost /...\ paid. For you to save, someone else must not. It’s a classic sor t of emergent pathology as often seen in complex systems. The inverse works too. Individually, spending money makes you poorer. But if we *all* spend money, we get (paradoxically) richer. We create a lot more
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Types of decentralization 2014-01-14 10:25:17
into sharing a few thoughts. I think there are three types of decentralization. They're not mutually exclusive, but in every case there are systems that are one but not the others. (1) Political decentralization A politically decentralized system is one that is managed by a diverse set of individuals /...\ Functional decentralization A functionally decentralized (networked) system is one that permits its parts to communicate directly without involving a third party translator or intermediary. (3) Physical decentralization A physically decentralized system is one that is distributed and robust from a physical point of view. Its parts can be split, moved /...\ around geographically, parts can fail without impacting the whole (too badly), etc. Here are some examples: (1) Wikipedia would be an example of a system that is fairly politically decentralized but is NOT functionally or physically decentralized. (2) A flat IP network (one with no NAT or discriminating inline firewalls
Pierre Ozoux [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-04 00:38:32
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-06 08:53:52
trust is inevitably what we'll need, I think so too.  Actually I think a simple registry in an Askemos compatible system would do.  Users would choose one or more registries and publish their peer's public key and status.  Plus some one-time code /...\ there is a problem, we need to gather the evidence".  If I reach enough (1/3rd) of them and they recognize my voice, the system will no longer reach agreement to any state change.  Problem mitigated. but PGP has a few critical problems. For one (1) the people that /...\ stable one, where I can switch keys.  Sure this can always be done, it's just yet another layer to design into the system from the beginning.) (2) More generally, SSB can publish a lot of different kinds of relationships between the nodes, because it's cheap to publish
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Spring of User Experience 2014-03-03 14:29:51
intended: In contrast to the mentioned "proof me wrong" attitude, out project began with the proof a security property.  We then built a system, which abides the a rule set we could proof secure. Let me share the surprise what happened once we had users... The problem we tackled /...\ relates to permission delegation. Easy to see: any system having an administrative super user is prone to corruption.  The administrator can easily impersonate any user.  No matter how much crypto you add, a chance is left where you must trust your admin.  So the first "interesting" result /...\ incorruptible system has pair-wise symmetric permissions initially. (Independent of how permissions are represented)  Next: we know there are inalienable rights in real world.  To be able to model those correctly we must proof that no operation is be able to transfer _all_ those permissions away from
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-19 12:52:55
think the Tsitsiklis/Xu paper tells us anything about > centralisation vs decentralisation in general. It gives a very > abstract model of a system where some fraction of a scarce resource > can be allocated wherever it's needed. I'm not surprised that such a > system has different /...\ queueing behaviour from a system with fixed > allocation. But it seems to me that this result is a poor fit for your > argument, in two respects. > > First, the result doesn't necessarily apply beyond resource allocation > problems - specifically, those problems where resources can be moved /...\ studied too much complexity and evolutionary theory, but I immediately got a mental image of a phase transition in state space where a system takes on new properties. You see that sort of thing in those areas all the time. But I don’t think
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 15:31:53
getting paid. For you to save, someone else must not. It’s a classic sort of emergent pathology as often seen in complex systems. The inverse works too. Individually, spending money makes you poorer. But if we *all* spend money, we get (paradoxically) richer. We create a lot more /...\ pathologies like the surveillance-driven centralized silo Internet. We all get poorer. Seems at least analogous to me. If we all paid for decentralized systems, we’d get richer — both in terms of freedom and privacy and in terms of opportunities for new technology businesses /...\ funded too. Some capital is going into this stuff, but it’s a very tiny trickle compared to what gets invested in centralized systems. That’s not because of any ideological agenda. It’s because centralized systems usually get more users (due to better user experience mostly
Marc Laporte [LibreList] Tiki Suite - Server, Web, Desktop and Mobile suite 2014-06-26 21:53:55
conferencing, LDAP, VPN, Gateway, Network, etc. You can install anywhere (home, office, laptop, data center, etc.) https://suite.tiki.org/Tiki+Suite "How come all our systems don't work together?" is a common frustration. Most organizations use dozens or even hundreds of software applications, systems and online services. Interoperability between /...\ them is a constant struggle. Time is wasted moving data from system to system. Data & feature duplication, data silos, dependency hell, etc. Organizations are held back by the complexity. Tiki Suite is arguably the most features you could ever get from a relatively small number of components: https://suite.tiki.org /...\ software suite: https://tiki.org/Model Tiki, as a PHP application, is designed for shared hosting and can run on just about any operating system. However, for Tiki Suite we have selected ClearOS for deeper & tighter integration. ClearOS is a cloud-connected Server, Network, and Gateway operating system designed
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-12 20:23:47
attack happens or suffer a large inefficiency in the meantime. But using an external network to bootstrap trust before you even turn the system on is clearly a much easier way to guarantee that it's done before the attack begins, and is probably the only efficient way to recover /...\ done before the attack begins. > This also makes me think more and more about hybrid systems where you've got multiple types of systems -- including both centralized and decentralized -- that back each other to create an "antifragile" network. That definitely seems like the way to go. Homogenous systems /...\ inherently fragile because any attack that works against any part of the system will work against the whole of it. It's like the Unix Way: Make everything simple and modular so that everything can interface with anything, that way if something isn't working you can swap
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-12 08:30:41
sites like Reddit /r/bitcoin and other things completely separate from the block chain. This also makes me think more and more about hybrid systems where you've got multiple types of systems -- including both centralized and decentralized -- that back each other to create an "antifragile" network. > The Bitcoin network /...\ into trusting things they shouldn't. Of course you can never be totally safe from social engineering, but at least you should present the system in a way that makes the social engineers' job harder. Complicated things like webs of trust are, I think, a no-go because they /...\ entities. If something is non-computable for machines it is also non-computable for humans. > One idea I've had is a hybrid system combining a centralized database and a decentralized DHT. Both are available and they back each other. The central database can take over if the decentralized
Louise Ishka [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-03 08:38:06
even check an RSS feed for you more than >> once an hour. It doesn't *feel* that hard to make a system that >> would offer someone a push button interface to deploying scripts >> like this. You have the user register an AWS or Heroku /...\ account, >> and the system could use OAuth to get the permissions to deploy >> it on their behalf. They pay the (tiny) bill and get all the >> benefits. >> >> Unfortunately, after spending way too much energy to make the >> script /...\ work with Docker, and after I sketched out the design for >> the generic system and realized how long it'd take to get to a >> Minimum Viable Product, I ran out of steam. >> >> I'd like to know if anyone is working
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-02 01:16:33
IFTTT won't even check an RSS feed for you more than once an hour. It doesn't *feel* that hard to make a system that would offer someone a push button interface to deploying scripts like this. You have the user register an AWS or Heroku account /...\ system could use OAuth to get the permissions to deploy it on their behalf. They pay the (tiny) bill and get all the benefits. Unfortunately, after spending way too much energy to make the script work with Docker , and after I sketched out the design for the generic system /...\ other. I'm involved with redecentralize projects due to the privacy issue and out of an interest in simpler, user-modifiable software, which web systems tend to restrict. I work solo in Austin on a project called Grimwire that's in this realm. I'm also involved in the distributed
maze@strahlungsfrei.de [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-02 23:56:09
even check an RSS feed for you more than once an hour. It > doesn't *feel* that hard to make a system that would offer someone a > push button interface to deploying scripts like this. You have the > user register an AWS or Heroku account /...\ system could use > OAuth to get the permissions to deploy it on their behalf. They pay > the (tiny) bill and get all the benefits. > > Unfortunately, after spending way too much energy to make the script > work with Docker, and after I sketched out the design /...\ generic > system and realized how long it'd take to get to a Minimum Viable > Product, I ran out of steam. > > I'd like to know if anyone is working on, or has heard of, things > that would play into this sort of model
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-02 21:58:22
even check an RSS feed for you more than >> once an hour. It doesn't *feel* that hard to make a system that >> would offer someone a push button interface to deploying scripts >> like this. You have the user register an AWS or Heroku /...\ account, >> and the system could use OAuth to get the permissions to deploy >> it on their behalf. They pay the (tiny) bill and get all the >> benefits. >> >> Unfortunately, after spending way too much energy to make the >> script /...\ work with Docker, and after I sketched out the design for >> the generic system and realized how long it'd take to get to a >> Minimum Viable Product, I ran out of steam. >> >> I'd like to know if anyone is working
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-05 16:13:36
even check an RSS feed for you more than >> once an hour. It doesn't *feel* that hard to make a system that >> would offer someone a push button interface to deploying scripts >> like this. You have the user register an AWS or Heroku /...\ account, >> and the system could use OAuth to get the permissions to deploy >> it on their behalf. They pay the (tiny) bill and get all the >> benefits. >> >> Unfortunately, after spending way too much energy to make the >> script /...\ work with Docker, and after I sketched out the design for >> the generic system and realized how long it'd take to get to a >> Minimum Viable Product, I ran out of steam. >> >> I'd like to know if anyone is working
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 11:50:49
Think of it as being like the difference between a VNC client and a virtual machine. Both allow you to use a different operating system on your local desktop. The first is a client that connects you to one running somewhere else, while the second actually runs one virtually /...\ games over this. :) On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:18 AM, Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: I'm working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then /...\ toward it incrementally. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:53:30
Think of it as being like the difference between a VNC client and a virtual machine. Both allow you to use a different operating system on your local desktop. The first is a client that connects you to one running somewhere else, while the second actually runs one virtually /...\ games over this. :) On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:18 AM, Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: I'm working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then /...\ toward it incrementally. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-05 13:59:28
keeping example, Dominic's answer is better -- SSB isn't really perfect for that. But my contention is that a large part of any system is holding the participants accountable for their activity. If the users operate under identities within a WoT, you have a lot more to hold them /...\ accountable with. That's the basis of the reputation system I'm talking about. Paul On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Jörg F. Wittenberger < Joerg.Wittenberger@softeyes.net > wrote: Am 04.09.2014 19:45, schrieb Paul Frazee: Got one question here: this seems to replicate data /...\ verifiable log only -- the content of the messages is an application concern. We're looking at CRDTs to deal with convergence, but the systemic model for security is the reputation system. CRDT = "Cambodian Rural Development Team"  ;-)  Ah, no "commutative replicated data type".  I love
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 15:21:49
funded too. Some capital is going into this stuff, but it’s a very tiny trickle compared to what gets invested in centralized systems. That’s not because of any ideological agenda. It’s because centralized systems usually get more users (due to better user experience mostly /...\ possible to achieve economies of scale that can make things like storage and compute cheaper in bulk there than they are in a distributed system. They can also be more reliable. I host many things in the cloud because it almost never goes offline, while my home Internet connection /...\ funding, it's easier to monetize centralized services so more venture capital is poured into creating them. The other post mentions technical difficulties, distributed systems are hard and getting them to work even when you trust each piece to act in good faith is difficult. Writing a distributed system which
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 12:45:35
verifiable log only -- the content of the messages is an application concern. We're looking at CRDTs to deal with convergence, but the systemic model for security is the reputation system. So if I wanted to build applications like that one on scuttlebutt... possible?  How would I make /...\ relationship between the nodes. One kind of edge would be verification. Another might be a warning flag. That's how you build the reputation system. On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Jörg F. Wittenberger < Joerg.Wittenberger@softeyes.net > wrote: Am 03.09.2014 01:25, schrieb Paul /...\ this seems to replicate data.  Does it protect against malicious updates too? To illustrate: I'm currently working on some simple payment system. (I picked "payment system" because that's something everyone understands without explanation of the app's purpose; however it's only an application which requires
Jacob Cook [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2014-01-02 19:00:50
even check an RSS feed for you more than >> once an hour. It doesn't *feel* that hard to make a system that >> would offer someone a push button interface to deploying scripts >> like this. You have the user register an AWS or Heroku /...\ account, >> and the system could use OAuth to get the permissions to deploy >> it on their behalf. They pay the (tiny) bill and get all the >> benefits. >> >> Unfortunately, after spending way too much energy to make the >> script /...\ work with Docker, and after I sketched out the design for >> the generic system and realized how long it'd take to get to a >> Minimum Viable Product, I ran out of steam. >> >> I'd like to know if anyone is working
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-13 21:04:47
That's the general pattern that I see. The easiest approach is the most centralized approach... at least if you neglect the longer term systemic downsides of it. Maybe over-centralization should be considered a form of technical debt. I agree that root CAs are horrible. I have had them /...\ attack happens or suffer a large inefficiency in the meantime. But using an external network to bootstrap trust before you even turn the system on is clearly a much easier way to guarantee that it's done before the attack begins, and is probably the only efficient way to recover /...\ underworld. On a more pragmatic note, I think you have a chicken or egg problem with the idea of bootstrapping before turning the system on. History has also demonstrated that in computing release early release often wins hands down. Everything that I am familiar with, from the web to Linux
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 11:40:41
games over this. :) On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:18 AM, Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: I'm working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then /...\ toward it incrementally. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make /...\ really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network, a trust system for selecting supernodes in a decentr alized manner, etc. (2) I do plan to have both an open source / free component and a commercial component
ben [GG] Re: Public Money until tomorrow evening: 2016-04-10 14:54:00
What will be the essential functional building blocks of the Internet then? Decentralization could be built around : 1/ PIMS (personal information management systems) 2/ third parties who can hosts the PIMS (banks, hosting companies, hardware vendors to self host…) 3/ vendors/administrations/associations providing data to individuals from their /...\ social requests, such as social comparisons or epidemiology without disseminating  data… 5/ trust hardware provider (cf bellow), 6/ Addressing systems (ideally a decentralized DNS, others wise a fragmentation of the web could happen) 1.5    Could you indicate where /...\ internet. Here are few hints, they are mainly for the next 5 to 10 years, not beyond. 1/ personal cloud, PIMS (personal information management systems), self-data... whatever you call it : development of system that empowers the individual to take back of their data, in order to be really empowered
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:18:13
working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then the server can be downloaded and self-administered for the super hard-core. I agree physical decentralization /...\ toward it incrementally. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make /...\ really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network, a trust system for selecting supernodes in a decentr alized manner, etc. (2) I do plan to have both an open source / free component and a commercial component
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] GNU Internet Stack / youbroketheinternet.org 2013-12-30 11:45:20
protocols like GNUnet that HTTP absolutely can't mimic. Regarding WebRTC, the central dependency is signal routing and IP discovery. You can distribute that system with lots of HTTPS hosts, but you still need to address vulnerabilities in DNS and SSL and consider the possibility of a compromised host. That /...\ same security outlook of most of the Web. The difference is that breaching those systems should be or is illegal, whereas tracking users in a CMS is not, and the latter is what WebRTC solves for us. Looked up that HN thread on OkTurtles to see where the Namecoin conversation /...\ things people can and should do now. The dig at WebRTC is uncalled for - yes, right now you have to have some other identity system to use it, and that is necessarily central. But it's an open standard, pluggable compontent that can be used in lots of ways
Kiktron RAKO [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] 2014-06-06 16:04:20
particular violation of constitutional or legislative obligations. The American body politic is suffering a severe case of auto-immune disease: our defense system is attacking another critical systems of our body...... Leucemia?.... 2014-05-28 0:20 GMT+02:00 Benjamin ANDRE < ben@cozycloud.cc > : hello Kicktron, our both projects /...\ particular violation of constitutional or legislative obligations. The American body politic is suffering a severe case of auto-immune disease: our defense system is attacking another critical systems of our body...... Leucemia?.... 2014-05-27 23:08 GMT+02:00 Tic Nticsebastian < patrick.sebastian7@gmail.com > : Hi there
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-09-12 17:14:40
directory authorities are the closest thing I can think of to a Blind Idiot God: they act as a trust anchor for the system while remaining deliberately ignorant about who uses it and how. They know even less than ZeroTier's supernodes, because they're not aware of individual flows /...\ know NAT is evil and must be destroyed or the kittens will die. NAT is the biggest and most underestimated obstacle for P2P systems. I'm glad you're tackling it head-on. > Good point about metadata privacy, but I think it’s ultimately not > a factor /...\ pass a voice packet through three relays and still deliver it to the destination in an acceptable amount of time, but the system will have to be really well engineered to minimise latency. Tor wasn't built with that in mind - and again, the question is who's going
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] First Person Technologies 2014-03-31 19:36:04
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-25 11:58:19
least not of the full problem. We did however build a programming environment however to gather experience.  The limits of the system are rather tight: it is essentially a system to collect/assert proofs of the state of software agents.  The agent's code however is treated like /...\ contract: no change, no upgrade.  The system starts actually by creating a social contract holding all the code required to boot the system.  By analogy this would be the constitution and the body of law a human inherits. Custom and law typically operate by defining constraints that must
Steve Phillips [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-01 21:02:50
decrypting the IP/port pairs however I'd decrypt them), thereby eliminating the critical zero-knowledge aspect?  Is this the kind of system and situation you have in mind? 1. Could something like the Fluidinfo API, which is world-writable (assuming it's still working), play the role /...\ some world-writable DB-backed API running on Heroku, GAE, or some other free architecture?  Couldn't that serve as such a system, which we'd only write encrypted data to?  We could even have several of these servers, which perhaps exchange information with one another /...\ simple DB replication?), in which case we'd have a federated  zero-knowledge system hosted by many providers.  (If the servers are independent and don't communicate, we could have one server that publicly lists the IPs of the other servers.)  This is basically
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Shadow Internet: Please help us to get funding 2014-03-21 22:18:20
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-14 04:30:54
That's the general pattern that I see. The easiest approach is the most centralized approach... at least if you neglect the longer term systemic downsides of it. Maybe over-centralization should be considered a form of technical debt. It's more like a security vulnerability. Single point of failure /...\ solutions. > On a more pragmatic note, I think you have a chicken or egg problem with the idea of bootstrapping before turning the system on. Just the opposite. Bootstrapping first *is* the ship early method because you bootstrap based on existing trust networks rather than trying to construct /...\ disproved Zooko's Triangle. Actually that's an interesting point. Zooko's triangle was supposed to be that you couldn't have a naming system which is decentralized, has global human-readable names and is secure. And it fails by the same overgeneralization as we had here
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:46:47
games over this. :) On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:18 AM, Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote: I'm working on a WebRTC system, and I've basically made the same tradeoffs. You need a central coordinator for WebRTC's signalling, so I'm running a public one, and then /...\ toward it incrementally. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make /...\ really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network, a trust system for selecting supernodes in a decentr alized manner, etc. (2) I do plan to have both an open source / free component and a commercial component
Kiktron RAKO [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hangoouts - SKyype Selfhost 2014-08-12 16:24:13
particular violation of constitutional or legislative obligations. The American body politic is suffering a severe case of auto-immune disease: our defense system is attacking another critical systems of our body...... Leucemia?.... 2014-08-11 15:38 GMT+02:00 < jackpot_@yopmail.com > : Hey there ! Your Goals /...\ great and common to billion people in the world ! A first step into redecentralize all could be self host some of cloud and communications systems like G**gle hangout and Skype. I found these very useful https://meet.jit.si https://jitsi.org open source and free projects, with many cool options also
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] First Person Technologies 2014-03-30 15:00:08
voices, from our sovereign and independent selves, using tools that extend our native capabilities. They won’t come only from systems others provide for us. They will, however, make those systems better as well. --- http://quartzjer.tumblr.com/post/80375916256/first-person-technology --- Something important happened this last week /...\ over the client — the glasses, watches, phones, or goggles. It’s over the  servers . It’s over the operating system. The one that understands countless layers of semantic tags upon every object on earth, the one that knows who to show you in Machu Picchu
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Zooko's triangle vs. Gödel incompleteness the 2014-08-25 10:58:38
after reading "Gödel, >> Escher, Bach" – I stopped trying at such self-proofing and universal >> naming systems precisely for _believing_ in this equivalence. Since I'm >> treating such schemes as either "probably broken" or outright evil /...\ challenge to do so. For me I'm seeing Zooko's triangle as the intention to collect proofs for name-value pairs into some system. Maybe I'm already wrong here? If I'm right, then name-value pairs would be "sentences in a language /...\ side). The collecting system would essentially perform the Gödel-enumeration (in some refined form like mapping to another human meaningful expression than natural numbers – but that's at worst a recursive incarnation of the same problem). What am I missing? > We don't even know
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-19 12:22:38
On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:30 AM, David Geib < trustiosity.zrm@gmail.com > wrote: It
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 10:51:29
ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make it work, then make it fast," I'm pursuing a strategy of "make it work, then make it more /...\ really hard. In the future it would be possible to further decentralize the protocol by introducing something like a fast Kad network, a trust system for selecting supernodes in a decentralized manner, etc. (2) I do plan to have both an open source / free component and a commercial component. ZeroTier /...\ decentralization means that no central point of failure exists... that I can ping your box regardless of whether someone somewhere else turns off their system. Obviously this is technically a lot harder to achieve and without functional decentralization what's the point
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-06 08:34:56
weeks to build usable applications. But is seems to be endless hard to get the same results using written documentation. The payment system (current draft) for instance is here http://ball.askemos.org/A876f1fe6998ca9d43f2e66c11a3f0d4a that is, this is one wallet of it. You want to log in using "public /...\ data. Does it protect >> against malicious updates too? >> >> To illustrate: I'm currently working on some simple payment system. (I >> picked "payment system" because that's something everyone understands >> without explanation of the app's purpose; however
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-06 03:28:23
would like to understand how your replication algorithm works. Do have have a link to a description of the algorithm? Also, regards your notary system: how are notaries assigned to officiate a particular "place" (is that correct Askemos terminology?) The data model in secure-scuttlebutt is very simple /...\ other people building on top of it, as twitter and it's like are increasingly doing. Do you have documentation on how your notary system and data replication works? Dominic On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Jörg F. Wittenberger <Joerg.Wittenberger@softeyes.net> wrote: > Boah /...\ correct that. > /Jörg > > Am 06.09.2014 08:34, schrieb Jörg F. Wittenberger: >> The payment system (current draft) for instance is here >> http://ball.askemos.org/A876f1fe6998ca9d43f2e66c11a3f0d4a >> that is, this is one wallet of it. You want to log in using
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-09 11:30:40
askemos.org/index.html?_v=wiki&_id=617 more technical here http://ball.askemos.org/?_v=wiki&_id=1339 (follow "consensus and synchronization protocol" for state machine replication > Also, regards your notary system: how are notaries assigned to > officiate a particular "place" > (is that correct Askemos terminology?) Apropos terminology: we did this in German /...\ twitter and it's > like are increasingly doing. > > Do you have documentation on how your notary system and data replication works? Hope so. See above. Also for the fun of it, try the search box in the upper left of ball.askemos.org and askemos.org (technical vs. "philosophy /...\ schrieb Jörg F. Wittenberger: >>> The payment system (current draft) for instance is here >>> http://ball.askemos.org/A876f1fe6998ca9d43f2e66c11a3f0d4a >>> that is, this is one wallet of it. You want to log in using "public" to >>> find
P S [LibreList] First Person Technologies 2014-03-29 17:32:15
voices, from our sovereign and independent selves, using tools that extend our native capabilities. They won’t come only from systems others provide for us. They will, however, make those systems better as well. --- http://quartzjer.tumblr.com/post/80375916256/first-person-technology --- Something important happened this last week /...\ over the client — the glasses, watches, phones, or goggles. It’s over the  servers . It’s over the operating system. The one that understands countless layers of semantic tags upon every object on earth, the one that knows who to show you in Machu Picchu
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-20 00:56:27
difficult or expensive so that burning one would be a significant loss to an attacker. > The goal is just to build a system where the cost of an attack is so high Right, of course. The trouble is there could be realistic DoS attacks within the capabilities of various /...\ failings of free market capitalism, it's clearly better than a centrally planned economy. The thing about functioning decentralized and federated systems is that they often work so well they become invisible. Nobody notices the *absence* of a middle man. And it seems like the more centralized systems work even
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-05 14:13:39
verifiable log only -- the content of the messages is an application concern. We're looking at CRDTs to deal with convergence, but the systemic model for security is the reputation system. CRDT = "Cambodian Rural Development Team"  ;-)  Ah, no "commutative replicated data type".  I love abbreviations.  Though /...\ commute.  Either I got money before I can spend it or I can't spend it.  What am I missing? This reputation system would be interesting to me.  But I can't find much about it. So if I wanted to build applications like that
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-22 13:51:28
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with
Jacob Cook [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2013-12-29 17:24:16
involved with redecentralize projects due to the privacy issue > and out of an interest in simpler, user-modifiable software, which > web systems tend to restrict. I work solo in Austin on a project > called Grimwire that's in this realm. I'm also involved /...\ distributed systems community here, though mostly as an enthusiast > (I'm not implementing paxos or anything). > > Nice meeting you all, and I look forward to seeing where this > community goes. > > Paul F -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJSwKEQAAoJECL1sE8aLy0urbEH/0a6g952fF0AbZJVAmrcQ59q +uWD0PXnPhV7OHVaV1L6hmhwEeOE4IBwu2a3LBREi8mheVLGo3gZD1hSYGqPsKY1 BI0tzaFn+a3LdwCC6v8QMkL4dfSrKfAbqv4fF2xyzIJpDfjpDuwGl+V0xuNU5QzB
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] GNU Internet Stack / youbroketheinternet.org 2013-12-30 11:42:22
things people can and should do now. The dig at WebRTC is uncalled for - yes, right now you have to have some other identity system to use it, and that is necessarily central. But it's an open standard, pluggable compontent that can be used in lots of ways /...\ have some other decentralized identification system, you can then use WebRTC on top of it somehow later. Francis On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 09:46:31PM -0600, Paul Frazee wrote: > No kidding about the diagram. > > Interesting statement on http://youbroketheinternet.org/map > > Because
Scott Jenson [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Intros and current projects 2013-12-29 19:26:39
involved with redecentralize projects due to the privacy issue > and out of an interest in simpler, user-modifiable software, which > web systems tend to restrict. I work solo in Austin on a project > called Grimwire that's in this realm. I'm also involved /...\ distributed systems community here, though mostly as an enthusiast > (I'm not implementing paxos or anything). > > Nice meeting you all, and I look forward to seeing where this > community goes. > > Paul F -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJSwKEQAAoJECL1sE8aLy0urbEH/0a6g952fF0AbZJVAmrcQ59q +uWD0PXnPhV7OHVaV1L6hmhwEeOE4IBwu2a3LBREi8mheVLGo3gZD1hSYGqPsKY1 BI0tzaFn+a3LdwCC6v8QMkL4dfSrKfAbqv4fF2xyzIJpDfjpDuwGl+V0xuNU5QzB
Shannon Tyler Cunningham [GG] Re: (probably) the world's highest solar powered mesh network and offline media server setup 2016-09-09 04:32:00
cultural globalization (which necessarily flows much more strongly from "West" to "East" and from nation to community than vice versa under a [Western] hegemonic system of globalization) in many of its communities, including communities in Leh. I also think that neglected here is the concept that we should be preserving /...\ cacheing, one might say) Ladakhi knowledge (and exporting it, should Ladakhis wish), rather than importing (national or global) hegemonic "knowledge" and systems of logic to Ladakh. The latter is also a form of centralization—of homogenization. And in the case of Ladakh at least, I'm sure
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 16:27:31
legal system isn't fundamentally broken just because a legal event occurs you don't like. The Internet has been (roughly speaking) net neutral for decades now, because of legal mechanisms. Today's ruling can be reversed through legal mechanisms (for example, by the FCC mustering the political will /...\ preface this reply with a couple caveats. 1) I am not trying to overthrow a nation-state (though I would be pleased if digital systems could essentially make nation-states irrelevant). 2) I am not suggesting that a meshnet could somehow 'defeat' (whatever that means) the attempts of a focused
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 13:39:30
make them more likely to capitulate politically. On Jan 14, 2014, at 1:27 PM, Eric Mill < eric@konklone.com > wrote: The legal system isn't fundamentally broken just because a legal event occurs you don't like. The Internet has been (roughly speaking) net neutral for decades now, because /...\ preface this reply with a couple caveats. 1) I am not trying to overthrow a nation-state (though I would be pleased if digital systems could essentially make nation-states irrelevant). 2) I am not suggesting that a meshnet could somehow 'defeat' (whatever that means) the attempts of a focused
Feross Aboukhadijeh [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 13:47:26
make them more likely to capitulate politically. On Jan 14, 2014, at 1:27 PM, Eric Mill < eric@konklone.com > wrote: The legal system isn't fundamentally broken just because a legal event occurs you don't like. The Internet has been (roughly speaking) net neutral for decades now, because /...\ preface this reply with a couple caveats. 1) I am not trying to overthrow a nation-state (though I would be pleased if digital systems could essentially make nation-states irrelevant). 2) I am not suggesting that a meshnet could somehow 'defeat' (whatever that means) the attempts of a focused
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 13:50:40
make them more likely to capitulate politically. On Jan 14, 2014, at 1:27 PM, Eric Mill < eric@konklone.com > wrote: The legal system isn't fundamentally broken just because a legal event occurs you don't like. The Internet has been (roughly speaking) net neutral for decades now, because /...\ preface this reply with a couple caveats. 1) I am not trying to overthrow a nation-state (though I would be pleased if digital systems could essentially make nation-states irrelevant). 2) I am not suggesting that a meshnet could somehow 'defeat' (whatever that means) the attempts of a focused
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 19:16:39
make them more likely to capitulate politically. On Jan 14, 2014, at 1:27 PM, Eric Mill < eric@konklone.com > wrote: The legal system isn't fundamentally broken just because a legal event occurs you don't like. The Internet has been (roughly speaking) net neutral for decades now, because /...\ preface this reply with a couple caveats. 1) I am not trying to overthrow a nation-state (though I would be pleased if digital systems could essentially make nation-states irrelevant). 2) I am not suggesting that a meshnet could somehow 'defeat' (whatever that means) the attempts of a focused
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-10 11:51:10
point, they asked for your username and password, then crawled your bank interface with an HTML-scraper. The issue with this system is, of course, data-containment: you give up your financial information to Mint in order to power the app. In the runtime-extension architecture I'm suggesting /...\ remote) servers state. Goal: trustworthy applications, hence some application state we can reasonably assume/agree to be correct. Method: stolen from (modeled after) the legal system: don't aim for absolute truth.  Rely on judgment and witness. So Askemos is somewhat like the web with the servers removed
Francis Irving [LibreList] DataCoin 2013-12-25 00:29:40
DataCoin is a decentralized storage system, keeping the data in a blockchain. You pay for storage using the underlying coins of its system. http://datacoin.info/index.php?id=index https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6961308 It's kind of cute that it only can store 513Gb per year. Has to have some other personal chains hanging
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Intros and current projects 2013-12-29 15:11:48
other. I'm involved with redecentralize projects due to the privacy issue and out of an interest in simpler, user-modifiable software, which web systems tend to restrict. I work solo in Austin on a project called Grimwire that's in this realm. I'm also involved in the distributed /...\ systems community here, though mostly as an enthusiast (I'm not implementing paxos or anything). Nice meeting you all, and I look forward to seeing where this community goes. Paul
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Trustworthy Contract Handling - Comparison Of Approaches 2014-07-29 09:57:54
gathering infos for a comparison of approaches towards trustworthy, tamper-proofed autonomous systems. So far I have in alphabetic order: Askemos/Wallet, Bitcoin, Ethereum, OpenTransactions, Ricardian Contracts. What about: Drogulus, does it do contracts? Which did I miss? Should I compare other properties too? Note that info might be wrong /...\ things. Please correct me. Thanks for you comments and suggestions. http://ball.askemos.org/?_v=wiki&_id=1786 /Jörg PS: If you feel like testing the payment system demo for yourself: send me a note and I send you a wallet. But beware: this is a demo: I don't want to automate
Steve Phillips [LibreList] Re: Sync/backup session was Re: [redecentralize] RDC 15 2015-10-15 14:07:49
wipe and replace with a 64-bit one. I won't let someone else host my data unless it's a zero-knowledge system (like Tahoe-LAFS) so I don't have to trust it. I may just start using Dropbox again and only put encrypted stuff in there, knowing /...\ dissemination of information to citizens. After all, information and news are what allows us, as a society to make good decisions and build lasting systems that benefit us all. It is not enough just to give people the ability to change things we also need to give people the information
Anne Radl [GG] New grant fund for decentralising tech! 2018-07-03 05:31:00
your interest in creating equitable systems that shift power to people and communities has led you to develop a tech innovation that does just that - please considering applying to Social Tech Trust's new grant fund - Tech to Unite Us! We've been thinking about the affordances of tech /...\ equality, and we think decentralising digital technologies have a huge role to play in reimaging systems, services and products with equality and inclusion at the core. I've included a blurb about the fund below - but read more about it here , and get in touch with me, Annie
Kiktron RAKO [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] 2014-05-27 23:24:13
particular violation of constitutional or legislative obligations. The American body politic is suffering a severe case of auto-immune disease: our defense system is attacking another critical systems of our body...... Leucemia?.... 2014-05-27 23:08 GMT+02:00 Tic Nticsebastian < patrick.sebastian7@gmail.com > : Hi there
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] 2014-05-28 00:20:46
particular violation of constitutional or legislative obligations. The American body politic is suffering a severe case of auto-immune disease: our defense system is attacking another critical systems of our body...... Leucemia?.... 2014-05-27 23:08 GMT+02:00 Tic Nticsebastian < patrick.sebastian7@gmail.com > : Hi there
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-03 11:31:11
single individual controls"; I actually like you "blind idiot god" term.  We always thought of it implementing some "general will" like the legal system in a constitutional state.  Not so different, isn't it? So far we concentrated on building a practical, working system (e.g., self-hosting
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-04 15:58:16
those circumstances, your trichotomy devolves to a dichotomy, "efficiency or security, pick one."  You're absolutely correct there. Decentralized systems are more robust against censorship, most naive denial of service attacks, and the failure of critical systems. What they usually don't offer is a good
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-04 16:04:39
basically eliminates every mesh protocol I know about, every DHT, etc. from consideration for mobile. >> In Turing-completeness there are shockingly minimal systems that are universal computers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_instruction_set_computer > > I'm afraid there needs to be some compromise. That's too simple /...\ language of users choice to execute the update? I agree... I just furnished it as an example to show that the complexity *floor* for systems like this can be pretty low. Usually the practical design is less minimal than what theory allows
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 00:48:45
only blindly operate on them. While some techniques (like RSA) were partially homomorphic, what you need to make arbitrary homomorphic computation is a system that can do both multiplication and addition (together, these are Turing complete), and no system to do this was found for 40 years, until Craig Gentry
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 11:57:52
only blindly operate on them. While some techniques (like RSA) were partially homomorphic, what you need to make arbitrary homomorphic computation is a system that can do both multiplication and addition (together, these are Turing complete), and no system to do this was found for 40 years, until Craig Gentry
Stephan Tual [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-22 14:41:22
Stephan Tual [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-24 22:15:06
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 15:45:37
question here: this seems to replicate data. Does it protect against malicious updates too? To illustrate: I'm currently working on some simple payment system. (I picked "payment system" because that's something everyone understands without explanation of the app's purpose; however it's only an application
Dominic Tarr [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-05 06:51:59
seems to replicate data. Does it protect > against malicious updates too? > > To illustrate: I'm currently working on some simple payment system. (I > picked "payment system" because that's something everyone understands > without explanation of the app's purpose; however it's only
Kiktron RAKO [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Video interview request: Red Matrix 2014-12-02 11:37:56
particular violation of constitutional or legislative obligations. The American body politic is suffering a severe case of auto-immune disease: our defense system is attacking another critical systems of our body...... Leucemia?.... 2014-12-02 11:17 GMT+01:00 fernando.gs@gmail.com < fernando.gs@gmail.com > : <3 or in other words
Brian Cloutier [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 05:32:00
funding, it's easier to monetize centralized services so more venture capital is poured into creating them. The other post mentions technical difficulties, distributed systems are hard and getting them to work even when you trust each piece to act in good faith is difficult. Writing a distributed system which
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: Sync/backup session was Re: [redecentralize] RDC 15 2015-10-16 11:31:17
scales by parallel operation), maintains DNS records for dynamic peers (try "dig ball.askemos.org" - most of those IP's are ARM-SoC systems at the homes of friends). (And yes: it delivers it's own website from those SoCs.) Downsides: the fuse client is not stable enough /...\ information to citizens. > After all, information and news are what allows us, as a society to > make good decisions and build lasting systems that benefit us all. It > is not enough just to give people the ability to change things we also > need to give people
Jonathan Deamer [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] What *else* are people doing with blockchains? 2014-01-02 16:21:10
practical application in a user-friendly way. I've also been sent this project by Agora Voting to do a Bitcoin-based secure voting system, but they're not releasing their draft til they raise way too many BTC. And I've seen Proof of Existence , a simple and clever
Christian de Larrinaga [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 17:59:46
This all reminds me of Ted Nelson's "Project Xanadu" that (allegedly) >> had such a content payment system built in. I believe Xanadu is over 50 >> years old and still being worked upon by Ted and volunteers
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] FireChat in Economist 2014-06-04 10:32:38
usually is) the output of the network itself.      So it's actually verified against the hash from the source control system. But both cases, verified or not, it does not matter so much to verify the code. Because suspicious code must produce the same output
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] snow: a new distributed secure virtual network 2014-07-04 12:02:36
That threat could be mitigated if OSes did a better job running services in isolation... just kill the offending infected service container, and the system is left untouched. That threat could also be mitigated by smart firewalls that can respond selectively to attacks without just blanket-blocking everything. Unfortunately
David Geib [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] snow: a new distributed secure virtual network 2014-07-04 15:27:01
That threat could be mitigated if OSes did a better job running services in isolation... just kill the offending infected service container, and the system is left untouched. That threat could also be mitigated by smart firewalls that can respond selectively to attacks without just blanket-blocking everything. Unfortunately
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] snow: a new distributed secure virtual network 2014-07-04 12:31:33
That threat could be mitigated if OSes did a better job running services in isolation... just kill the offending infected service container, and the system is left untouched. That threat could also be mitigated by smart firewalls that can respond selectively to attacks without just blanket-blocking everything. Unfortunately
Jacob Cook [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] How can we strengthen the Internet for free expression and innovation? 2014-03-19 10:34:41
eQualit.ie (the people behind https://deflect.ca too) have put out a proposal for a new kind of decentralized and distributed data hosting/communication system: https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/submissions/lightweb-an-unbreakable-internet Take a look! Jacob Cook <jacob@peakwinter.net> https://peakwinter.net On 18/03/14 11:01 AM, Ross Jones wrote: > It’s been mentioned
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics 2014-07-27 06:56:31
analysis from rather hand-wavy philosophical problems to some of the concrete technical work we've been doing on FriendSecure (the message passing system) and the drogulus (the universal DHT). You say you want to hear about what we can do: How about thinking carefully and deeply about the problems
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-02 15:59:09
power works: "Why are you my King?", "Because my father was your King!" It's the result of an imposed system (Feudalism or a certain technical architecture) rather than merit or consensus of opinion based upon tangible evidence (the king has authority via accident of birth
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-02 12:47:06
Keys expire after one year. That's it. Or could we go even more minimal than that? In Turing-completeness there are shockingly minimal systems that are universal computers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_instruction_set_computer
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-03 10:45:39
updates are allowed). All handling of keys, expiration time etc. would suddenly be user defined. > In Turing-completeness there are shockingly minimal systems that are universal computers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_instruction_set_computer I'm afraid there needs to be some compromise. That's too simple to be usable. How about allowing
maze@strahlungsfrei.de [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] What *else* are people doing with blockchains? 2014-01-02 16:07:02
user-friendly way. I've also been sent this project by Agora Voting > to do a Bitcoin-based secure voting system, but they're not releasing > their draft til they raise way too many BTC. And I've seen Proof of > Existence, a simple and clever
Christian de Larrinaga [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] RDC 15 2015-10-16 13:38:46
dissemination of information to citizens. After all, information and news are what allows us, as a society to make good decisions and build lasting systems that benefit us all. It is not enough just to give people the ability to change things we also need to give people the information
adam.ierymenko [GG] Re: So centralized! 2016-04-06 15:04:00
very expensive, so this cost is often a lot less than the cost of manually maintaining things. Decentralization is not just about networking, distributed systems, and data replication. It's also about solving a long list of more mundane problems that contribute indirectly... like this
Janislav Malahov [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 19:13:27
start today! > > > > This all reminds me of Ted Nelson's "Project Xanadu" that (allegedly) > had such a content payment system built in. I believe Xanadu is over 50 > years old and still being worked upon by Ted and volunteers
Steve Phillips [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Hangoouts - SKyype Selfhost 2014-08-11 06:53:35
great and common to billion people in the world ! A first step into redecentralize all could be self host some of cloud and communications systems like G**gle hangout and Skype. I found these very useful https://meet.jit.si https://jitsi.org open source and free projects, with many cool options also
David Burns [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics 2014-07-27 20:49:10
analysis from rather hand-wavy philosophical problems to some of the concrete technical work we've been doing on FriendSecure (the message passing system) and the drogulus (the universal DHT). You say you want to hear about what we can do: How about thinking carefully and deeply about the problems
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Re: Trustworthy Contract Handling - Comparison Of Approaches 2014-08-07 11:31:57
this is more an > experiment in code. I fully understand that. See: in about 2000 I started coding around similar ideas. As the system majored, we ran into various additional ideas. Maybe some are interesting or inspiration: Once we have the DHT, what do we do with
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Zooko's triangle vs. Gödel incompleteness the 2014-08-21 13:20:19
after reading "Gödel, > Escher, Bach" – I stopped trying at such self-proofing and universal > naming systems precisely for _believing_ in this equivalence. Since I'm > treating such schemes as either "probably broken" or outright evil. > > But it could
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: Trustworthy Contract Handling - Comparison Of Approaches 2014-08-03 14:56:05
Wittenberger": > Hi all, > > I'm gathering infos for a comparison of approaches towards > trustworthy, tamper-proofed autonomous systems. > > So far I have in alphabetic order: Askemos/Wallet, Bitcoin, Ethereum, > OpenTransactions, Ricardian Contracts. > > What about: Drogulus, does it do contracts? Which
Robert Tischer [LibreList] RE: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 16:36:16
/RT2> > I think that software should be modular, and not "interlocked". It makes sense within a system, like the Linux kernel. But when software become dependent on other software, without alternative, all kinds of problems can arise. This is yet another discussion. :) == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE
hellekin [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 15:33:14
/RT2> > I think that software should be modular, and not "interlocked". It makes sense within a system, like the Linux kernel. But when software become dependent on other software, without alternative, all kinds of problems can arise. This is yet another discussion. :) == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE
juh [GG] Re: Redecentralize Radar, our super picky usable app directory 2017-02-28 23:20:00
board which consist of members from "relevant social groups". Television in that time had a public mission. With the advent of private television this system was forced into a niche and people started to degenerate. What I want to say is. There are means to control infrastructure a. collectively
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-11 10:45:08
point, they asked for your username and password, then crawled your bank interface with an HTML-scraper. The issue with this system is, of course, data-containment: you give up your financial information to Mint in order to power the app. I see.  That's something
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Re: Trustworthy Contract Handling - Comparison Of Approaches 2014-08-15 17:46:37
experiment in code. > > I fully understand that. See: in about 2000 I started coding > around similar ideas. As the system majored, we ran into various > additional ideas. Maybe some are interesting or inspiration: > > Once we have the DHT, what do we do with
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-11 11:15:55
point, they asked for your username and password, then crawled your bank interface with an HTML-scraper. The issue with this system is, of course, data-containment: you give up your financial information to Mint in order to power the app. I see.  That's something we'd never
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Applying User-Agent Behaviors in Web Applications to Enable Runtime Extension 2014-03-10 14:51:13
remote) servers state. Goal: trustworthy applications, hence some application state we can reasonably assume/agree to be correct. Method: stolen from (modeled after) the legal system: don't aim for absolute truth. Rely on judgment and witness. So Askemos is somewhat like the web with the servers removed. (And not restricted
Robert Tischer [LibreList] RE: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 13:49:55
restrain use, modification, distribution, or access to their source code in any way to do so. Moreover, as you must know, peer-to-peer systems work best when more people use it. If the Internet Protocol was covered by restrictive "intellectual property", we certainly wouldn't have this
MikedePlume [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-20 12:04:36
failings of free > market capitalism, it's clearly better than a centrally planned > economy. The thing about functioning decentralized and federated > systems is that they often work so well they become invisible. Nobody > notices the *absence* of a middle man. This is a great conversation
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 11:31:47
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 16:25:23
This all reminds me of Ted Nelson's "Project Xanadu" that (allegedly) > had such a content payment system built in. I believe Xanadu is over 50 > years old and still being worked upon by Ted and volunteers
Tristan Nitot [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Redecentralize Conference, 17-18 Oct, London 2015-08-25 15:33:59
stone saying that we need to centralize the Web to exchange. Actually, my company, Cozy Cloud, is working on standards that could enable different systems to privately share things. More details: http://camp.ouisharelabs.net/2015/dswg/ and https://www.w3.org/community/decsharing/ . --Tristan > We are > social animals. We go into the most
Nicholas H.Tollervey [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics 2014-07-28 08:53:49
from rather hand-wavy philosophical problems to some of > the concrete technical work we've been doing on FriendSecure (the > message passing system) and the drogulus (the universal DHT). > > You say you want to hear about what we can do: > > How about thinking carefully
holger krekel [LibreList] any meeting point for tonight? 2015-10-16 08:18:38
dissemination of information to citizens. After all, information and news are what allows us, as a society to make good decisions and build lasting systems that benefit us all. It is not enough just to give people the ability to change things we also need to give people the information
Ximin Luo [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Spring of User Experience 2014-03-01 10:22:03
hellekin [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Check out Hiveware's decentralized platform (as in no servers) 2015-09-02 13:06:32
restrain use, modification, distribution, or access to their source code in any way to do so. Moreover, as you must know, peer-to-peer systems work best when more people use it. If the Internet Protocol was covered by restrictive "intellectual property", we certainly wouldn't have this
Geoffroy Couprie [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Spring of User Experience 2014-02-28 19:33:08
That's what we saw with GPG, client cert authentication, etc. When you take a top down approach, you design the interaction of your system, then adapt cryptosystems there, and you may end up with requirements that current crypto cannot meet, or applying raw crypto APIs that have no good
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] RDC 15 2015-10-17 01:17:28
dissemination of information to citizens. After all, information and news are what allows us, as a society to make good decisions and build lasting systems that benefit us all. It is not enough just to give people the ability to change things we also need to give people the information
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Spring of User Experience 2014-02-28 12:31:08
integrated in CyanogenMod as the default SMS provider without any UX degradation, and they just moved beyond SMS to a more full-featured messaging system. And unlike Telegram, they're doing it all as 100% open source , and even experimenting with ways of incentivizing and crowdfunding contributions. So when
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet" 2014-02-03 11:04:28
Except that we immediately scaled back to leave browser integration for later. A decade of experience later and having released a usable, self-hosting system I can account the resources it took.  We had four people working full time for about four years, a couple of bachelor
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] february meetup 2014-02-03 10:52:25
meetup resource for redecentralize? I think people would respond with more interest if they knew the .org was behind it. We have the Distributed Systems Enthusiasts (on meetup.com ) for a near approximation in the mean-time. On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Francis Irving < francis@flourish.org
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet" 2014-02-03 09:53:54
Except that we immediately scaled back to leave browser integration for later. A decade of experience later and having released a usable, self-hosting system I can account the resources it took.  We had four people working full time for about four years, a couple of bachelor and master
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 15:07:09
abusive actors in the network > (DoSers, attackers) and with schemes to share resources (bandwidth, > sometimes disk-space). This is where the reputation system gets involved. > > For some interesting reading, I'll refer you to Dominic's project, > https://github.com/dominictarr/secure-scuttlebutt. OK, timeout. I'm just
hellekin [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] connecting 2015-09-17 05:45:33
domain, one can be reached from the 'normal' web, too? > 'Normal' Web users only use DNS to resolve their names, so alternate systems won't work for them (that includes Tor, I2P, GNS, Namecoin, etc.). But there's a way to access Tor onion Web services using DNS: tor2web
Odinn Cyberguerrilla [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 13:00:02
preface this reply with a couple caveats. 1) I am not trying to overthrow a nation-state (though I would be pleased if digital systems could essentially make nation-states irrelevant). 2) I am not suggesting that a meshnet could somehow 'defeat' (whatever that means) the attempts of a focused
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 14:38:21
picture.  But rather than harp about any one company (or licensing approach, or ruling, etc) I want to emphasize decentralized systems beyond what many are accustomed to hearing about / using. When people hear "open source" or "p2p" they might think of Ubuntu, or Android (regarding open source
michiel [GG] Re: WebTorrent Desktop - open source streaming torrent client 2016-04-06 19:53:00
Great! Should I also download and seed some torrents if I want to help bootstrap the eco-system, or will it already help the network if I just leave the application open and running on my laptop? Cheers, Michiel
Francis Irving [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 21:12:46
This all reminds me of Ted Nelson's "Project Xanadu" that (allegedly) >> had such a content payment system built in. I believe Xanadu is over 50 >> years old and still being worked upon by Ted and volunteers
vaX Cymaticka [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] "Old" but good article on "The Internet's Original Sin" 2015-08-25 14:40:51
This all reminds me of Ted Nelson's "Project Xanadu" that (allegedly) >> had such a content payment system built in. I believe Xanadu is over 50 >> years old and still being worked upon by Ted and volunteers
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] What *else* are people doing with blockchains? 2014-01-03 10:36:17
application in a user-friendly way. I've also been sent this project by Agora Voting to do a Bitcoin-base d secure voting system, but they're not releasing their draft til they raise way too many BTC. And I've seen Proof of Existence , a simple and clever
Odinn Cyberguerrilla [LibreList] Net Neutrality Ruling, Internet Interprets Censorship as Damage, There are no Captains, Decentralize Everything, etc. 2014-01-14 12:14:11
picture. But rather than harp about any one company (or licensing approach, or ruling, etc) I want to emphasize decentralized systems beyond what many are accustomed to hearing about / using. When people hear "open source" or "p2p" they might think of Ubuntu, or Android (regarding open
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] ZeroTier One for Windows 2014-03-07 15:52:33
will probably never be supported due to a number of missing network and driver related API functions. (It's also an EOL operating system in general.) Let me know if you have problems. If people have success here I'm going to link it on the downloads page and release
Eric Mill [LibreList] What *else* are people doing with blockchains? 2014-01-02 10:41:43
practical application in a user-friendly way. I've also been sent this project by Agora Voting to do a Bitcoin-based secure voting system, but they're not releasing their draft til they raise way too many BTC. And I've seen Proof of Existence , a simple and clever
Francis Irving [LibreList] Sync/backup session was Re: [redecentralize] RDC 15 2015-10-15 20:07:43
dissemination of information to citizens. After all, information and news are what allows us, as a society to make good decisions and build lasting systems that benefit us all. It is not enough just to give people the ability to change things we also need to give people the information
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-06 09:56:09
noise, I had to correct that. /Jörg Am 06.09.2014 08:34, schrieb Jörg F. Wittenberger: > The payment system (current draft) for instance is here > http://ball.askemos.org/A876f1fe6998ca9d43f2e66c11a3f0d4a > that is, this is one wallet of it. You want to log in using "public
[LibreList] Hangoouts - SKyype Selfhost 2014-08-11 15:38:33
great and common to billion people in the world ! A first step into redecentralize all could be self host some of cloud and communications systems like G**gle hangout and Skype. I found these very useful https://meet.jit.si https://jitsi.org open source and free projects, with many cool options also
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Zooko's triangle vs. Gödel incompleteness the 2014-08-21 12:22:09
About 20yrs. ago – after reading "Gödel, Escher, Bach" – I stopped trying at such self-proofing and universal naming systems precisely for _believing_ in this equivalence. Since I'm treating such schemes as either "probably broken" or outright evil. But it could
adam.ierymenko [GG] So centralized! 2016-04-04 15:38:00
seriously... I've been of the opinion for a while that there is absolutely no problem in using centralized systems to help build decentralized ones. If it speeds things up or improves your communication or whatever, use it. Every previous tech revolution used the present to build the future
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Anyone here from Washington, DC? 2014-01-02 18:00:30
Austinites I'd encourage to join the Distributed Systems Enthusiasts ( www.meetup.com/Distributed-Systems-Enthusiasts/ ) On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 5:55 PM, Virgil Griffith < i@virgil.gr > wrote: Talk to the TRSST people.  They are DC area. On Jan 2, 2014 6:13 PM, "Eric Mill" < eric@konklone.com
will.sch [LibreList] RDC 15 2015-10-15 13:25:28
dissemination of information to citizens. After all, information and news are what allows us, as a society to make good decisions and build lasting systems that benefit us all. It is not enough just to give people the ability to change things we also need to give people the information
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] What *else* are people doing with blockchains? 2014-01-02 12:02:15
application in a user-friendly way. I've also been sent this project by Agora Voting to do a Bitcoin-base d secure voting system, but they're not releasing their draft til they raise way too many BTC. And I've seen Proof of Existence , a simple and clever
Torbjörn Johnson [GG] A distributed CDN 2017-03-07 09:43:00
your browser (Chrome, Firefox, Opera). The product has its roots in the EU-funded project P2P-Next but has been further developed by DACC Systems AB in Sweden. Currently there are a few demo videos available but you are encouraged to contact me to get an invitation
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Tell me decentralization news! 2014-04-23 09:52:30
Josh Tauberer's Mail-in-a-box (a system for a self-hosted email server) made the semifinalist round of the Knight News Challenge on a healthier internet, one of 54 semifinalists out of 659 original entries. https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/submissions/mail-in-a-box Current code, which Josh has been using for 6 months
Benjamin ANDRE [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Tell me decentralization news! 2014-04-24 23:27:58
Cozy.io 2014-04-23 15:52 GMT+02:00 Eric Mill < eric@konklone.com > : Josh Tauberer's Mail-in-a-box (a system for a self-hosted email server) made the semifinalist round of the Knight News Challenge on a healthier internet, one of 54 semifinalists out of 659 original
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Status reports - where are you with your work? 2014-04-25 08:03:32
including a few businesses using it "for real," no major bugs reported for over a month, so far auto-update system is secure and works flawlessly. On Apr 25, 2014, at 7:45 AM, Paul Frazee <pfrazee@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey all, > > I thought
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Status reports - where are you with your work? 2014-04-25 10:51:26
regular users so far including a few businesses using it "for real," no major bugs reported for over a month, so far auto-update system is secure and works flawlessly. On Apr 25, 2014, at 7:45 AM, Paul Frazee < pfrazee@gmail.com > wrote
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Status reports - where are you with your work? 2014-05-02 16:18:26
including a few > businesses using it "for real," no major bugs reported for over a > month, so far auto-update system is secure and works flawlessly. > > On Apr 25, 2014, at 7:45 AM, Paul Frazee <pfrazee@gmail.com > <mailto:pfrazee@gmail.com