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Redecentralize

We’ve had enough of digital monopolies and surveillance capitalism. We want an alternative world that works for everyone, just like the original intention of the web and net.

We seek a world of open platforms and protocols with real choices of applications and services for people. We care about privacy, transparency and autonomy. Our tools and organisations should fundamentally be accountable and resilient.

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Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 11:50:49
most VPNs? On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: I absolutely agree. As I've designed ZeroTier One I've had an eye toward further decentralization, designing the protocol so that it will be achievable with as little pain as possible /...\ existing protocol messages should work fine and not need to be altered much (if at all). A bit about the ZT1 design: Supernodes in ZeroTier One are just regular nodes running the exact same code as the regular client that are running on fast cloud providers (Digital Ocean in this /...\ three differ ent cities. More will probably be added in the future. Network IDs are 64-bit numbers composed of the 40-bit ZeroTier address of the "netconf master" for the network and a random 24-bit ID. The netconf master is a node resposible for doing things like distributing
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:53:30
most VPNs? On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: I absolutely agree. As I've designed ZeroTier One I've had an eye toward further decentralization, designing the protocol so that it will be achievable with as little pain as possible /...\ existing protocol messages should work fine and not need to be altered much (if at all). A bit about the ZT1 design: Supernodes in ZeroTier One are just regular nodes running the exact same code as the regular client that are running on fast cloud providers (Digital Ocean in this /...\ three differ ent cities. More will probably be added in the future. Network IDs are 64-bit numbers composed of the 40-bit ZeroTier address of the "netconf master" for the network and a random 24-bit ID. The netconf master is a node resposible for doing things like distributing
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 11:40:41
absolutely agree. As I've designed ZeroTier One I've had an eye toward further decentralization, designing the protocol so that it will be achievable with as little pain as possible. I have a mental image of what it might look like, and the protocol is designed to enable /...\ existing protocol messages should work fine and not need to be altered much (if at all). A bit about the ZT1 design: Supernodes in ZeroTier One are just regular nodes running the exact same code as the regular client that are running on fast cloud providers (Digital Ocean in this /...\ supernodes in three different cities. More will probably be added in the future. Network IDs are 64-bit numbers composed of the 40-bit ZeroTier address of the "netconf master" for the network and a random 24-bit ID. The netconf master is a node resposible for doing things like
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:46:47
most VPNs? On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: I absolutely agree. As I've designed ZeroTier One I've had an eye toward further decentralization, designing the protocol so that it will be achievable with as little pain as possible /...\ existing protocol messages should work fine and not need to be altered much (if at all). A bit about the ZT1 design: Supernodes in ZeroTier One are just regular nodes running the exact same code as the regular client that are running on fast cloud providers (Digital Ocean in this /...\ three differ ent cities. More will probably be added in the future. Network IDs are 64-bit numbers composed of the 40-bit ZeroTier address of the "netconf master" for the network and a random 24-bit ID. The netconf master is a node resposible for doing things like distributing
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 13:18:13
make our way toward it incrementally. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice /...\ decentralizing a protocol and that in turn comes from some fundamental constraints in information theory such as the CAP theorem. My goal is for ZeroTier One to be reliable, zero-configuration, and very fast, and doing that without any centralized POP is really hard. In the future it would /...\ selecting supernodes in a decentr alized manner, etc. (2) I do plan to have both an open source / free component and a commercial component. ZeroTier One supports the creation of arbitrary distributed LANs. There will be a few public wide-open ones that will be free for unlimited
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 10:51:29
ZeroTier is a semi-decentralized system at the moment from a technical point of view. There's three reasons for that: (1) Sort of like the common optimization advice of "make it work, then make it fast," I'm pursuing a strategy of "make it work, then make it more /...\ decentralizing a protocol and that in turn comes from some fundamental constraints in information theory such as the CAP theorem. My goal is for ZeroTier One to be reliable, zero-configuration, and very fast, and doing that without any centralized POP is really hard. In the future it would /...\ selecting supernodes in a decentralized manner, etc. (2) I do plan to have both an open source / free component and a commercial component. ZeroTier One supports the creation of arbitrary distributed LANs. There will be a few public wide-open ones that will be free for unlimited
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-07 17:32:09
place to place at no cost. I don't see the relevance to the lookup and routing problems you're aiming to solve with ZeroTier. Second, the advantage is gained by having a panoptic view of the whole system - far from being a blind idiot, the allocator needs to know /...\ able to send resources anywhere. It's more Stalin than Lovecraft. I'm not denying that a touch of centralisation could help to make ZeroTier more usable, efficient and secure - I just don't think this paper does anything to support that contention. You mention split-brain and internet weather /...\ problems ZeroTier should cope with, but I'm not sure centralisation will help to solve those problems. If the network is partitioned, some nodes will lose contact with the centre - they must either stop operating until they re-establish contact, or continue to operate without the centre's guidance
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-04 16:06:56
exactly, but close. CJDNS is a mesh protocol that creates a single L3 IPv6 network. ZeroTier One is a hybrid peer to peer protocol that creates virtual Ethernet networks (plural). ZeroTier is more like SDN for everyone, everywhere. (SDN is software defined networking, and refers to the creation of software /...\ message. (But hitting "reply" instead of "reply to list" sends it to the list anyways.) One more question: am I correct to understand that zerotier serves essentially the same purpose as cjdns? https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns Thanks /Jörg Am 03.08.2014 11:31, schrieb
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 00:48:45
Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: Not exactly, but close. CJDNS is a mesh protocol that creates a single L3 IPv6 network. ZeroTier One is a hybrid peer to peer protocol that creates virtual Ethernet networks (plural). ZeroTier is more like SDN for everyone, everywhere. (SDN is software defined networking /...\ message. (But hitting "reply" instead of "reply to list" sends it to the list anyways.) One more question: am I correct to understand that zerotier serves essentially the same purpose as cjdns? https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns Thanks /Jörg Am 03.08.2014 11:31, schrieb
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-05 11:57:52
Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: Not exactly, but close. CJDNS is a mesh protocol that creates a single L3 IPv6 network. ZeroTier One is a hybrid peer to peer protocol that creates virtual Ethernet networks (plural). ZeroTier is more like SDN for everyone, everywhere. (SDN is software defined networking /...\ message. (But hitting "reply" instead of "reply to list" sends it to the list anyways.) One more question: am I correct to understand that zerotier serves essentially the same purpose as cjdns? https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns Thanks /Jörg Am 03.08.2014 11:31, schrieb
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 11:07:42
upon others. IP and open standards like HTTP, JSON, XML, etc. are designed for heterogenous ecosystems of interoperable clients and servers. The idea with ZeroTier was to be, as I said in my secret RSS feed, “a complicated thing that gets /...\ simple things.” The idea of ZeroTier is for it to serve as a stepping stone *out* of the fragmented broken-IP world— to offer an anti-lock-in path back to open protocols over a true many-to-many flat Internet address space. It’s a project/product /...\ wrote: > I got the feed, served off your laptop! Oh that was great fun. > > If my RSS reader (Newsblur) installed ZeroTier on all their servers, would I be able to use it to subscribe to this feed off of your laptop
holger krekel [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-02 19:16:07
open standards like HTTP, JSON, XML, etc. are designed for heterogenous ecosystems of interoperable clients and servers. > > The idea with ZeroTier was to be, as I said in my secret RSS feed, “a complicated thing that gets out of the way so we can do simple things /...\ idea of ZeroTier is for it to serve as a stepping stone *out* of the fragmented broken-IP world— to offer an anti-lock-in path back to open protocols over a true many-to-many flat Internet address space. It’s a project/product designed to make itself /...\ feed, served off your laptop! Oh that was great fun. > > > > If my RSS reader (Newsblur) installed ZeroTier on all their servers, would I be able to use it to subscribe to this feed off of your laptop
mempko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 08:45:25
firestr.com/">Fire★</a> falls on the private/known mode of communication, and I am not attempting to make it anything else.  ZeroTier One can act as public or private and it makes sense to me why he chose some central points to handle the public case. Because /...\ they need resources that corporations are simply not interested in providing. I really feel for them!<br> <br> I heard ZeroTier One got some seed funding. This is great! However, I suspect it would not have been possible if Adam build a completely decentralized system. Since /...\ capitalist thinks there is an upside. I am all for taking money out of capitalists if it means more decentralized systems get investment like ZeroTier. And I hope Adam reads my blog post about the dangers he faces ahead. He will have an uphill battle in keeping it decentralized
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Introduction 2014-01-06 12:40:57
Adam, ZeroTier has been high on my watch-list. Very interesting project. I'm guessing because of the subscription model that it has some central coordinator? What I imagine doing with ZeroTier is running private web services and distributing the names (" http://couchdb.paul ") among my virtual LAN. Is that feasible /...\ Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: Hey redcentralize list... just introducing myself. I'm Adam Ierymenko, author of ZeroTier One and one of the redecentralize.org interviewees. You can view my work here: https://github.com/zerotier/ZeroTierOne https://www.zerotier.com/ I live in Lake Forest, California and have listed myself
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-03 11:31:11
with state-of-the-art implementations.  It will probably not scale and hence we never tested how it scales.  When looking at zerotier I'm asking: could this possibly be a transport plugin? What we need: A) Our identifiers are self-sealing.  That is, they are required /...\ Fortunately we have this code.  So what we really need is "network traffic" between peers identified by some key. In understand that zerotier provides (B).  But since I see "some kind" of "noise" as identifier in zerotier, I'm unsure how easy it would
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Status reports - where are you with your work? 2014-05-02 16:18:26
25/04/14 16:51, Paul Frazee wrote: > Glad to hear things are going well, Adam! I have a pretty good > usecase for ZeroTier that I'll be checking out soon, so I'm looking > forward to that. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes /...\ Adam Ierymenko > <adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com <mailto:adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com>> > wrote: > > ZeroTier One - https://www.zerotier.com/ > > Status: beta, pretty stable though one big change is still coming, > binary releases with auto-update in the wild and working well. > > Latest milestone: bug fixes
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-19 12:52:55
place at no cost. I don't see the relevance to the > lookup and routing problems you're aiming to solve with ZeroTier. I have an admission to make. I did a very un-academic right-brainy thing, in that I made a little bit of a leap. When /...\ some centralization is needed to achieve efficiency and the other things that are required for a good user experience, and if so how much. ZeroTier’s supernodes know that point A wants to talk to point B, and if NAT traversal is impossible and data has to be relayed
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-12 08:30:41
solution most of the Internet uses is for real-world political entities (corporations, governments, etc.) to create signing certificates. This is also the solution ZeroTier uses, more or less. Supernodes are designated as such because they're hard coded, which will soon be determined by a signing certificate that /...\ what I did. I had to do it anyway because I had to add a new IOCTL to the tap driver to allow the ZeroTier service to query multicast group subscriptions at the Ethernet layer. Windows has no such thing natively, while on OSX/BSD you can get it via sysctl
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Status reports - where are you with your work? 2014-04-25 10:51:26
Glad to hear things are going well, Adam! I have a pretty good usecase for ZeroTier that I'll be checking out soon, so I'm looking forward to that. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes. Who's next /...\ Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier One - https://www.zerotier.com/ Status: beta, pretty stable though one big change is still coming, binary releases with auto-update in the wild and working well. Latest milestone: bug fixes, TCP tunneling for use behind tough firewalls. In development: new web site that
frabcus [GG] Re: Redecentralize Radar, our super picky usable app directory 2017-03-14 19:55:00
file sharing. So I'm not inclined to cover it. I am looking at Resilio (BTSync). Any other torrent-related clients that you recommend? ZeroTier - yes! Is there a place that says the common use cases people have for it now? Francis
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] ZeroTier One public beta (binaries) for Macintosh and Linux 2014-02-13 12:34:00
test yet. Is there an ETA on that package? On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 AM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier One public beta binary release is now available for Macintosh and Linux. (Windows coming soon.) Tell me how broken
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] ZeroTier One public beta (binaries) for Macintosh and Linux 2014-02-13 10:55:53
test yet. Is there an ETA on that package? On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 AM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier One public beta binary release is now available for Macintosh and Linux. (Windows coming soon.) Tell me how broken
Paul Frazee [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] ZeroTier One public beta (binaries) for Macintosh and Linux 2014-02-13 13:00:12
test yet. Is there an ETA on that package? On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 AM, Adam Ierymenko < adam.ierymenko@zerotier.com > wrote: ZeroTier One public beta binary release is now available for Macintosh and Linux. (Windows coming soon.) Tell me how broken
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] ZeroTier One public beta (binaries) for Macintosh and Linux 2014-02-12 22:05:38
ZeroTier One public beta binary release is now available for Macintosh and Linux. (Windows coming soon.) Tell me how broken it is, or isn't. https://www.zerotier.com/download.html
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Introduction 2014-01-06 10:30:53
redcentralize list... just introducing myself. I'm Adam Ierymenko, author of ZeroTier One and one of the redecentralize.org interviewees. You can view my work here: https://github.com/zerotier/ZeroTierOne https://www.zerotier.com/ I live in Lake Forest, California and have listed myself as the POC for anyone who wants to start
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] ZeroTier One for Windows 2014-03-07 15:52:33
just released the first binary package of ZeroTier One for Windows. You can find out more about the project here if you don't know about it already: https://www.zerotier.com/ The Windows version is not yet linked on the downloads page, because I'd like a few people other than
adam.ierymenko [GG] So centralized! 2016-04-04 15:38:00
speeds things up or improves your communication or whatever, use it. Every previous tech revolution used the present to build the future too. - Adam @ ZeroTier
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Status reports - where are you with your work? 2014-04-25 08:03:32
ZeroTier One - https://www.zerotier.com/ Status: beta, pretty stable though one big change is still coming, binary releases with auto-update in the wild and working well. Latest milestone: bug fixes, TCP tunneling for use behind tough firewalls. In development: new web site that is less ugly & easier
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-08-03 14:21:03
message. (But hitting "reply" instead of "reply to list" sends it to the list anyways.) One more question: am I correct to understand that zerotier serves essentially the same purpose as cjdns? https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns Thanks /Jörg Am 03.08.2014 11:31, schrieb "Jörg F. Wittenberger": Adam
Eric Mill [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-08-31 21:36:34
feed, served off your laptop! Oh that was great fun. If my RSS reader (Newsblur) installed ZeroTier on all their servers, would I be able to use it to subscribe to this feed off of your laptop? On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:55 PM, David Geib < trustiosity.zrm@gmail.com
Jörg F. Wittenberger [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization and deperimeterization 2014-09-04 14:49:06
supporting the user in selecting peers they know, trust (to some extend within some specific context and not another), talk to at all etc. Zerotier seems to do a good job at letting them talk to each other. Good enough, you don't want a single tool responsible for everything
Michael Rogers [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] Thoughts on decentralization: "I want to believe." 2014-09-12 17:14:40
they act as a trust anchor for the system while remaining deliberately ignorant about who uses it and how. They know even less than ZeroTier's supernodes, because they're not aware of individual flows and they don't relay any traffic themselves. > It would be significantly easier
mempko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 18:11:20
story. As far as funding goes, three of the projects you list are funded to some level by angel or venture capital: BitTorrent, ZeroTier, and Sandstorm. I think OwnCloud, which you didn’t mention, is funded too. Some capital is going into this stuff
Pierre Ozoux [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-04 00:38:32
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 15:21:49
story. As far as funding goes, three of the projects you list are funded to some level by angel or venture capital: BitTorrent, ZeroTier, and Sandstorm. I think OwnCloud, which you didn’t mention, is funded too. Some capital is going into this stuff
adam.ierymenko [GG] Re: Redecentralize Radar, our super picky usable app directory 2017-02-28 16:50:00
that are usable for developers and IT people and then things that are usable for end users. How do we submit stuff? IPFS, BitTorrent, ZeroTier, and of course all the cryptocurrency stuff should be on there to the extent that it is usable. Re: Redecentralize Radar, our super picky usable
Adam Ierymenko [LibreList] Re: [redecentralize] The Cloud's Shadow on Grass Computing 2015-04-03 15:31:53
story. As far as funding goes, three of the projects you list are funded to some level by angel or venture capital: BitTorrent, ZeroTier, and Sandstorm. I think OwnCloud, which you didn’t mention, is funded too. Some capital is going into this stuff